Please see RAW STORY for the whole story, but Bush’s former White House spokesperson Ari Fleischer pulled a slick, if sleazy maneuver on CNN’s Larry King Live last night while undermining the wingnut “birthers” who believe that Obama is not a U.S. citizen:
Actually, there is “evidence of that being the case,” Ari. Plenty of it. Beginning (but not ending) with this years-old independent study [PDF] by a media/academic consortium posted at the “conservative” American Enterprise Institute showing that when all the ballots in the state of Florida were counted — by any standard (hanging chads, swing chads, pregnant chads, etc.) — Bush lost and Gore won. By. Every. Conceivable. Counting. Standard. Period.
Other than that, yeah, “for everyone…who’s a little lulu on the right, there’s about 1.8 who’s lulu on the left,” as Fleischer misled.
Dishonest Moral Equivalence Accomplished.
The video from the 10/6/09 Larry King Live, also featuring whacky Rep. Michele Bachmann’s evasion of whether the “birthers” are crazy or not, is posted below…
Ari Fleischer says “How Dare You?” to Chris Matthews about 9/11 happening on Bush’s watch, also perpetuates lie about Saddam Hussein attacking the US (very surprised Matthews didn’t call him on that one.)
but this is nothing new from Fleischer, who warned that Americans better watch what they say back when he was WHPS.
He’s a worthless (but dangerous) douchebag propagandist.
Ari Filcher may not believe the message he delivered. But he truly believes the “mission”.
He’s still out there stumping for a totally failed philosophy.
That’s what makes him “dangerous”.
Why is the label ‘wingnuts’ used for anyone who cares about the requirements of the Constitution being followed?
Up in the TreeTop still looking for your kite, huh? That bird has flown, Bond. Anyway, it’s just a goddamn piece of paper, que no?
I loved Birthers and the Constitution daddy, read it again, will ya, will ya?
I was looking for a rational response.
Why is he on TV?
Where does Fleischer request that the constitution be followed? For the Birth Certificate? Still?
That’s been readily settled for a year now.
And c’mon, please…this blow hole was the spokesperson for the most UNCONSTITUTIONAL administration in this nation’s history.
Why is this jackass even given airtime is a much better question…
I wasn’t talking about Fleischer. Brad uses the label ‘wingnuts’.
TreeTop, stop the pretense OK. The birther movement was discredited long before Obama was even elected, so anyone who continues to wipe that tired old rag cares little about the Constitution.
What does a wingnut do?
Spin, spin, spin.
Sad, sad, sad.
TreeTop007 #5 whinged:
“I was looking for a rational response.”
Just a thought, maybe if you want one of those . . . you should try asking a rational question.
It’s comical and ironic that anyone questioning whether Obama was a natural born citizen is dismissed as a ‘wingnut’, even though no proof has been shown.
Yet the very same people are whining in 2009 over an election in 2000 AFTER the Supreme Court and the Congress settled the matter.
By your own standards, doesn’t that make you a wingnut?
Perhaps if you had been in the delivery room watching his mom push him out that would be satisfactory to you. For the rest of us, a legal birth certificate from Hawaii suffices.
Does calling someone a troll violate the rules and regs? Oh what the hell.
Troll.
For your information, a person could be a ‘naturalized’ citizen and have the very same certificate, meaning they were not born in the United States.
So that certificate is meaningless in determining where the person was born.
Troll, it says his birthplace is Honolulu.
Troll, both of Honolulu’s major newspaper announced the birth in print.
Troll, multiple lawsuits have been dismissed by US District court judges as being without merit.
Begone, Troll!
And the election in 2000 was decided. Quit whining.
Soul Rebel – Easy please. No need to name call here.
TreeTop007 – You asked:
It’s not. It’s used for wingnuts. I’ve seen no evidence that the cadre of folks running their evidence-free campaign against Obama gives a damn about the Constitution. If they did, they would have been quite loud over the last eight years. They weren’t. They didn’t give a damn. Now, they give a damn only about delegitimizing a legit President (now that we actually have one, like him or not).
You further charged:
You’re right. No proof has been shown that he is not a citizen. On the other hand, much proof exists to show that he is. Even more proof than is available to show that McCain was, for that matter! (Since McCain is quite arguably NOT a natural-born U.S. citizen, having been born outside of the U.S. and at a time when foreign-born children of military were NOT born with natural-born citizenship, but I fail to recall any wingnuts making that case last year.)
As to your second point, the Supreme Court has no place in deciding Presidential Elections. May want to read that Constitution you mentioned. The people are supposed to decide, via electors. And the people decided by ballot that Gore should have been the President. The Supreme Court decided otherwise, in one of the most extraordinary contraventions of the U.S. Constitution this country has ever seen.
“Whining” about it? Hardly. Outraged out about it? You damned well better believe it. Those of us who actually give a damn about the Constitution don’t just do so every few years when it’s convenient, or when someone on Fox “News” tells us to.
Yes, the election was decided. By the Supreme Court. Not by the voters. Big. Fuck. Difference.
Do you think anyone is trying to change the outcome of the 2000 election? Just curious. Or is it rather an academic pursuit intended to prevent future ‘mishaps.’
Merit vs. No Merit. Which case is the wingnut invariably drawn to? To answer this, we turn to actor, martial-artist, and leading wingnut spokesnut Chuck Norris…
Maybe you would like to rewrite history. but Congress certified the electoral votes in all 50 States and the District of Columbia.
Gore himself ruled the objections brought up by some in Congress because not one Senator would co-sponsor the objection.
It’s a done deal….deal with it.
I’d say that makes you a super ‘wingnut’ to be whining nearly a decade after the fact.
PS You have misspelled Fleischer in your title as ‘Fleisher’
Congress certifying votes doesn’t mean shit about whether the votes were actually counted correctly. Go erect your straw man elsewhere.
Last I heard we elected a President by electoral vote, not popular vote
Wishing and whining doesn’t change the fact, or the law.
Yawn….
/ignore
Someone just “outed” the “secret DOJ blogging teams”. Looks like Eric Holder will be a major defendant in the scandal that is going to dwarf “Watergate” – http://www.publiusforum.com/200...is-it-illegal/
TreeTop:
Here’s’s a free book. I wrote it just for you.
Being that you are such a sucker for the facts, suck on this.
http://www.geocities.com/electi...yLandslide.htm
“Troll, multiple lawsuits have been dismissed by US District court judges as being without merit.”
No court or judge has seen the documents. The cases are dismissed on the grounds that individual citizens don’t have the right to bring them to the court.
I hate being on this side of the argument but all of the high paid legal obfuscation raised many red flags with this reader.
The question is not whether he was a citizen, the question is whether he met the special set of conditions reserved for the chief executive officer. The founding fathers didn’t want a british subject to become president so they created different standards.
And if you tell me that Obama submitted a certficate to an organization with a website and that they verified it, then I think Karl Rove.
I don’t know what the answers are but I do know that the official 9/11 narrative is impossible and that has earned me the label “truther”. “Birther” is no a real world and is a back handed personal attack.
Why the obfuscation, I don’t know. Just don’t tell me 2 = 2 = 5.
Edward — the “special set of conditions reserved for the chief executive officer” are satisfied by the fact that Obama was born in the United States. That has been verified by high-ranking officials of the State of Hawaii — whose governor, by the way, is a Republican who supported McCain.
For most people, a little research will get all the confusion straightened out. I must say, though, given your position about 9/11, that generalization may not apply to you.
TreeTop007 flipped and flopped:
Perhaps this is difficult for you to understand, but where the laws require electors be voted by a plurality of those voting for them, that would be the law of the land. Simply because the Supreme Court decides to override the Constitution and the dumbass cowards in Congress decide to go along with it, does not make the fact that more people voted for Al Gore than George Bush (including in the state of Florida) any less true.
Yes, it was done and illegal. And I deal with it every day. We all do. As do you. We’d likely not be in the mess we’re in were it not for that. We’ll likely be dealing with it for decades to come. Hence, following the rule of law and the Constitution is far better than not doing so in such cases.
But I presume this means the done deal of Obama as President is one you’ve dealt with as well, and that you are calling on the “birthers” to deal with it? That seems in opposition to your earlier comments.
You may say whatever you like, of course. Saying something, however, doesn’t mean you’re right, doesn’t mean there is evidence to support your position (where there is evidence to support mine, of course.)
Right. And Al Gore, were it not for the illegal intervention of the Supreme Court, ordering that legal votes NOT be counted in FL, would have enjoyed his victory by electoral vote, since he won the popular vote in FL. Wishing and whining doesn’t change that fact.
“No court or judge has seen the documents. The cases are dismissed on the grounds that individual citizens don’t have the right to bring them to the court.”
As long as we’re splitting hairs fine, most of the cases have been dismissed as being without standing, meaning that the “victims” can’t show that they’ve actually been harmed by . . . whatever the misfeasance is alleged to be. You’re right that judges haven’t seen the evidence–whatever it’s imagined to be–because there is no prima facie case that would cause them to require confidential records be made public. One judge, as I recall, suggested the case he heard was no more than harassment.
“I hate being on this side of the argument but all of the high paid legal obfuscation raised many red flags with this reader.”
Who’s high paid? I’ve never seen the salaries of Obama’s attorneys published, and, given the frivolity of the cases, I wouldn’t be surprised if some are working pro bono. And where’s the obfuscation? In mounting a legal defense when you’re taken to court?
The funniest thing about the birther theory is that there’s no reason whatsoever to believe any of it. People simply latch on to any number of claims with no documentary support. Then they insist that the actual evidence, experts and independent verifications are wrong, because they have to be wrong in order for the birthers to keep believing what they want to believe.
In short, birthers aren’t treated like reasonable people because they don’t have a reasoned position and are therefore immune to evidence and reasonable debate. 2 + 2 = 4. They just don’t want to believe 4.
Re: Why is the label ‘wingnuts’ used for anyone who cares about the requirements of the Constitution being followed?
Huh? No, honey. Read as follows:
“I don’t give a goddamn,†Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.â€
“Mr. President,†one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.â€
“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,†Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!â€
It’s the extreme Republican right-wing that wants to destroy our Constitution. You need to do some research before spewing your ill-conceived opinion.
Barack and Michele originally hail from Sirius and are here to aid the whole world in planetary ascension and usher us into a world of peace and love and to expose the 13 families of Satanists and their lies that have gone on since the beginning of time. We have been under the veil for too long. Time to wake up and watch the governments fail. It is the Divine Plan!
The Washington Post is reporting that Obama is going to appear for some sort of deposition regarding this matter.
I offer this as strictly FYI. I have no opinion about it. My focus is on free speech.
PS: I voted for the African American woman (neither a racist or misogynist am I)
October 6, 2009 – Washington Post
Burden of Proof on Obama’s Origins
A dentist and lawyer, Orly Taitz has plenty to keep her busy. But a side passion is what consumes her these days: challenging Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president.
As far as 9/11 goes, I highly recommend a recent Peter B Collins interview of Dr. David Ray Griffin. Peter B Collins and I both think 9/11 was an inside job. Dr. Griffin offers thousands of pages of facts to back that up.
September 29, 2009
Busting Myths With Building 7
Peter B Collins talks one on one with Prof. David Ray Griffin, focusing on the two most recent of his 35 books: The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 is Unscientific and False and Osama bin Laden, Dead of Alive? Building 7 is the gateway to busting the myths of 9/11 embraced by the discredited 9/11 Commission. Dr. Griffin talks about how Van Jones was vilified just for signing a petition calling for a new investigation, and about the effort to pass a NYC referendum enabling a new inquiry. He offers many examples of the NIST reports exagerrations and fabrications, and concludes that WTC was brought down in a controlled demolition. In the bin Laden book, he details all of the reports of bin Laden’s death, evaluates the credibility of video and audio releases attributed to bin Laden, and concludes that he is probably dead.
First off, all I did was ask a simple question about using the label ‘wingnuts’, and people start foaming at the mouth like rabid dogs, jumping to conclusions without ANY merit at all.
I’m not a troll, or a Republican, or a supporter of George Bush, I don’t watch FOX News, I have been loud and angry at the Government for Constitutional reasons, and not just the last 8 years, closer to 25 years, and lastly, I DO think George Bush stole the 2000 Election, I think it was stolen in OHIO for sure, and possibly in Florida also.
So you’re all beating the wind fighting a ghost in your arguments, because I’m not whoever or whatever you think I am.
I asked a simple question about the ‘wingnut’ term and immediately you think you have me pegged, and go off ranting with your standard anti-FOX, anti-Rightwing, anti-Republican bs.
I was pointing out the irony in you labeling the birthers(a derogatory term itself) as ‘wingnuts’ because you incorrectly believe it has been proven that Obama is a natural born citizen, and it’s been less than a year in trying to see the proof. Yet you are crying over an election that has been settled for nearly a decade, it’s over, it’s history, even the crook himself out of office, and somehow using the same standards in which you label others ‘wingnuts’, you aren’t ‘wingnuts’ yourself?
And lastly, which statement is false
A person born OUTSIDE of the United States can have a Birth Certificate of Live Birth, just like the one Obama showed online.
Dr Janice Okubo has never claimed Obama was a ‘natural born’ citizen, her statement was that she has ‘personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.’
Barry Soetoro and Obama are both one and the same person.
His biological father was Kenyan, a citizen of Britain.
His father was married to more than one wife at the same time he was married to Obamas mother.
His stepfather was a citizen of Indonesia.
Obamas mother was known to have used AT LEAST 5 different names.
Obama went to school in Indonesia, with school records showing him to be a citizen of Indonesia.
PS Brad, you still have Fleischer misspelled in your title as ‘Fleisher’
“A person born OUTSIDE of the United States can have a Birth Certificate of Live Birth, just like the one Obama showed online.”
A) Not in 1961.
B) Not showing that person’s birthplace being inside the U.S.
Edward Rynearson @ 30 said:
No. They’re note. They’re reporting [emphasis added]:
That said, I have no problems if the rule of law is followed on anything, including deposing the President. Too bad nobody bothered to ensure the last guy in the White House followed the rule of law. On anything.
TreeTop007 said:
No. I call them wingnuts, because that’s what they are. Hard rightwing nuts. If they wish to make a legal case about anything, that’s fine and up to them. That they happen to be hard rightwing nuts, interested in political power above all, even to the detriment of the nation, is why I call them wingnuts.
In the meantime, I’m unaware of any evidence — zero — to suggest Obama is not a natural born citizen, but aware of much evidence suggesting quite the opposite.
As to calling for accountability (you call it “whining”) for an illegally installed “President” (Bush), if there is not accountability, it is likely to happen again. History, you may be aware, tends to repeat itself. I am hardly a “wingnut” of any wing of any party. That, unlike the far-rightwing ideologue wingnuts who make up the majority of those trying to make the “birther” case.
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
No cigar for Jon
The great investigative journalist can’t show us ANY documentation that his President, Barack Hussein Obama AKA Barry Soetoro is a ‘NATURAL BORN’ citizen???
That’s weak dude.
Um . . . Tree . . . there’s nothing in that statute that allows the adulteration of birth location.
And it was passed in 1982.
O could have been born anywhere as long as mom is a US citizen,he is too, period Link
Now go away, Birfer
Section 1 Article 2 of the Constitution:
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
The 14th Amendment has nothing to do with defining a ‘natural born Citizen’.
Now go back to sucking your thumb, Floridiot
What a Numbskull, so then George Washington was illegitimate too then I suppose?
You’re never going to get Ron Paul installed no matter how much you and Ugly Titz kick and scream, lol
See, it’s so hard to be civil when arguing against this tripe. It’s like cleaning up vomit – even if you wear gloves and don’t get any on you, the smell is gonna make you curse and want to hurl yourself.
There were actually 10 US Presidents that could NOT meet the ‘natural born Citizen’ requirement, and yes George Washington was one of the ten who couldn’t.
That was the sole purpose of the ONLY exception to being a ‘natural born Citizen’, ‘OR a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution’.
No wonder Barry Soetoro was elected, we need flash cards just to explain the requirements of the Constitution to you.
Perfect nick for you, FlorIDIOT
And still the great investigative journalist can’t provide even ONE piece of documentation to show that Barry Soetoro is a ‘natural born Citizen’.
That so-called certificate doesn’t even tell you he is black, white, or polka dotted.
I hit a nerve, he’s a Paultard
I’m proud to have Ron Paul as my Congressman.
The financial mess the US is in has been the VERY thing he has warned us about, for 20 years or so.
He wants to get rid of the FED, the same bankers who have destroyed your dollar and made it worth 4 cents, and it’s even losing that 4 cents worth of value as I type.
You can’t blame a single death of our Military men and women on him, he didn’t vote for the wars.
And he’s not ever ever ever voted for a new tax, or a raise in any single tax, not once in all his years in Congress.
Ron Paul is the genuine article, not a fake like 99% of the rest of the politicians.
BOOM!!, heads explode as Barry Soetoro Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize. lo fuking l
love it
however, when he commits to getting the fuk out of Afghanistan, I’ll say the prize was deserved. Until then, not so much.
“And still the great investigative journalist can’t provide even ONE piece of documentation to show that Barry Soetoro is a ‘natural born Citizen’.”
I’m not sure why you’ve got such a peevish hang-up on another name Obama used in elementary school. It just makes you sound more petty and pertisan, especially when, as I’m sure we’ve all learned by now, a child’s status as a natural-born citizen can’t be removed by actions of his parents.
As far as “one piece of documentation,” there is one; you’re simply ignoring it because you have to to believe what you want to believe. The birth certificate we’ve seen is a government-issued, court-admissible document giving Obama’s birth location as Honolulu.
“That so-called certificate doesn’t even tell you he is black, white, or polka dotted.
A) Why should that matter?
B) It gives the races of his parents; maybe Hawaii, being as diverse as it is, prefers to let us use our deductive reasoning skills (and self-identification preferences) to figure race.
Soul,
I like the fact that by winning it he might just be shamed into doing some of the stuff we want him to do, either way, it’s he-larry-us that he won.
I’m not sure why you’ve got such a peevish hang-up on another name Obama used in elementary school.
That’s easy.
Barry Soetoro, according to school records, was an citizen of Indonesia.
As far as “one piece of documentation,” there is one; you’re simply ignoring it because you have to to believe what you want to believe. The birth certificate we’ve seen is a government-issued, court-admissible document giving Obama’s birth location as Honolulu.
Another easy one to understand,…at least some of us.
To be eligible to be President, there is a definite difference in being a ‘natural born Citizen’ and a ‘naturalized’ citizen, the latter CAN NOT be President, period.
There is a difference in a ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ and a ‘Certification of Live Birth’, the latter does not prove a person is ‘natural born’.
The polka dot comment was to show how little information anyone has actually seen(no hospital, delivering doctor, etc) and for fun, because he’s neither black or white, he’s a mutt.
Whether this is true or not (I couldn’t say one way or the other), it’s entirely valueless. Citizenships are not mutually exclusive, his parents could not have changed his status as a natural-born American citizen, and he was too young to change his own status as a natural-born American citizen.
This is a half-truth at best. The difference is largely semantic; one creates an official record of a birth, while the other is a statement of that record. Both are government issued; both are court admissible; and both can prove natural-born status, since they both give the birth location.
As loathe as I am to spend much more time on this thread, when my extremely limited resources are better spent elsehwere, I note that TreeTop007 said:
…And I am just curious, was John McCain eligibile to be President? Were you on a similar “whining” binge over his candidacy? Particularly given the evidence that actually exists to show that he wasn’t actually a “naturally-born U.S. citizen” at the time he was born??
And finally, do you think Ms. Taitz and company would be on a similar rampage to remove McCain from office had he won last year?
Even though I’m sure a lawyer could muddy the water enough to confuse us with a legal argument that McCain was ‘natural born’. I’d say no, he does not meet the requirement and definitely consider him a ‘naturalized’ citizen and a natural scumbag crook.
I don’t know enough about Ms Taitz to be able get into her head.
I do appreciate your coverage of the Sibel Edmonds and Mike Connell stories.
And Brad, believe it or not, your use of the term ‘wingnut’ hurts your credibility more than it does my feelings. Peace
“And Brad, believe it or not, your use of the term ‘wingnut’ hurts your credibility more than it does my feelings. Peace”
I have no interest in hurting your feelings, TT. Peace.
Was the $20K fine enough? Maybe when Taitz becomes a real lawyer she will appreciate what just happened. I wonder if she is a mail order bride, just like her law degree? She is perfect reporter material for “Fake Newsâ€, where unfounded rumors and innuendo reign supreme , unlike a our US courts of law, where you need to present facts, not half baked lies. After several times of flying into the lights, flies get burned, Taitz just got burned, thing is, she will continue, no end in sight. Poor Birthers they hate and can’t debate.
A lawyer, dentist, realtor, black belt, I must say she is a Jack of all trade master of none.