It didn’t turn out that way. “Mancow,” in fact, lasted just six or seven seconds before crying foul. Apparently, the experience went pretty badly — “Witnesses said Muller thrashed on the table, and even instantly threw the toy cow he was holding as his emergency tool to signify when he wanted the experiment to stop,” according to NBC Chicago.
…
“I wanted to prove it wasn’t torture,” Mancow said. “They cut off our heads, we put water on their face…I got voted to do this but I really thought ‘I’m going to laugh this off.’ ”
The upshot? “It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that’s no joke,” Mancow told listeners. “It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back…It was instantaneous…and I don’t want to say this: absolutely torture.”
So far, it’s been almost a full month since Fox “News”/ABC Radio propagandist Sean Hannity volunteered to be waterboarded for charity, claiming it was not torture. Despite MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann offering $1000 for the troops, for every second Hannity lasts, the cowardly wingnut torture apologists has failed to revisit the topic since his original act of phony bravado.
See “Mancow” being waterboarded, and then commenting on it, in the two very short videos below. And remember, unlike the detainees that we tortured, he was not being waterboarded by hostile folks, and was able to call it off at any time, on his own…
On a related topic… I was on San Francisco’s usually very rightwing radio station KGO last night, with the progressive Christine Craft sitting in as late-night host. Lots of similarly cowardly wingnuts called in to inform us that waterboarding isn’t torture at all. Here’s the audio. Enjoy.
MP3 Download, or listen online (appx 35 mins)…
[audio:http://bradblog.com/audio/ChristineCraft_KGO_Brad_051209.mp3]
Update: My VelvetRevolution.us colleague Kevin Zeese writes in to note that his coverage of the same news item at Voters For Peace, also includes a video of Vanity Fair’s Christopher Hitchens being waterboard in February of 2008, to similar result as “Mancow’s.” He also lasts about 5 seconds under waterboarding by friendly torturers.
UPDATE 5/23/09: And this just in via ThinkProgress…
OLBERMANN: Mancow Muller had the guts to put his mouth where his mouth was, and the guts to admit he was dead wrong. As you saw, he not only said it is torture, but that he had nearly drowned as a boy, and it is drowning, and that he would have admitted to anything to make it stop.
So the offer to the coward Hannity — a thousand dollars a second he lasted on the waterboard — is withdrawn.
And to Mr. Muller, whose station’s publicity person contacted us yesterday saying she’d heard I’d offered ten thousand dollars to anybody who would do what he did –
You got it. Ten thousand dollars to the military-families charity of the man who did the waterboarding, Veterans Of Valor. […]
As to Hannity, you are now unnecessary.
UPDATE 5/29/09: Olbermann interviews Mancow after his waterboarding. Video follows below. Here’s a bit of the transcript…
OLBERMANN: Can you, having gone through this, trust you get the right answer?
MANCOW: Keith, the honest answer is, I don’t know. If I had information, I’m sure I would have given it up…I would have said anything to make it stop…
…
Look, you’ve said something incorrectly, and I think everyone has. They compare it to drowning. Now, I drowned as a kid and I had to be revived…This is worse. Okay, this isn’t gulping for air. This is, your brain is shut off. This is water at the back of your skull; a gallon of water poured down my nose. I had a marine do it, and I mean, it was good night Irene; game over…I thought I could go 30 seconds. I’d hold my breath. Big deal. They sprinkle water. It is a big deal, and it’s torture.
You know the old saying that it takes a two-by-four slapped upside someones head to get it to sink in they’re so dense…well, that applies to the wingnuts in spades.
Brad, in his 08/01/2002 memo to the CIA’s John Rizzo [PDF], Jay Bybee noted that SERE waterboarding was discontinued by all branches of the service except the Navy “because it was so successful as an interrogation technique†that it was “almost 100% effective in producing cooperation among the trainees.â€
Keep in mind that this “cooperation” (better described as capitulation) is secured even though the SERE trainees know that it’s only training and even though they know that medical personnel are standing by to make sure they don’t die by drowning.
Like the SERE trainees, Manchow had the luxury of knowing that he had nothing to lose by capitulating. Compare that to my father’s circumstance in which he believed that by confessing to being a British agent, he was signing his own death warrant, yet he signed the “confession”–and you begin to appreciate the awesome brutality of this ancient form of torture.
Ernest A. Canning
Okay. Now I’m crying. Will THIS convince Obama to uphold the Constitution? Will Holder now grow a pair and prosecute? Now that someone who radically didn’t want to think it admits it’s torture? Will this FINALLY stop us beating the shit out of detainees?
Please?
Thanks for posting, it gave me an idea.
I’m sure you’re well aware of the challenge that Olbermann put out to Hanity, well…. SEE HERE
Of course, what I really want is for this story to be broadcast on the MSM, for it to be spread far and wide!
I wasn’t tickled the way ‘La Daily Cosa Nostra’ took it upon themselves to spend someone else’s money & dragging others along … Tacky! … I would like to see hannity hold up his side of the bargain. Indeed the “media” should keep track of hannity’s welching.
~
Bamboo Harvester:
Where is that written or in reference to? Or is that your own commentary? If it’s about the diary I posted on Daily Kos today, then don’t be ridiculous!
And what is it you’re asking a “redo” on?
[ed note: He was asking for a redo on an earlier draft of his comment and I just missed deleting the relevant phrases, sorry. –99]
P.M. ~ Tacky, Yet effective, Olbermann comes through! He’s truly is Da~Man! … As a result he took hannity off the hook, Unfortunately … Perhaps his rationale understandably is that if something happend to hannity Keith would have to live with it … This pissing contest had some major consequences & Yous did provided him a Graceful Exit … Cheers!
~
to view a partial list of crimes committed by FBI agents over 1500 pages long see
http://www.forums.signonsandiego.com/showthread.php?t=59139
to view a partial list of FBI agents arrested for pedophilia see
http://www.dallasnews.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3574
Coulter waterboarded by older brother? Is she saying it was something worse?
http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=310
As to Hannity, you are now unnecessary.
Same as ever was … Same as it ever was . . .
~
no ponce she didnt say anything important…as usual.
I must say Richard Greene of AAM did a Fine job covering this !
~
Bamboo Harvester:
Greene did indeed cover this well, and I appreciated that he made a point of connecting accountability for Hannity’s statements to media integrity – an issue that’s “near & dear to my heart.” I don’t think I’ll be finding any opposition to media reform here. =)
By the way, perhaps it was just serendipity that Olbermann had dealt with this development the way I had suggested in my DailyKos diary, as he said that Mancow’s PR person contacted him. However, I thought you might find it interesting that I have since been “scrubbed” entirely from DailyKos – no joke. Not only is my diary gone, but there is no trace of it at all, nor does my profile exist there anymore, and they actually went as far as to BLOCK MY IP ADDRESS from accessing their website!
Seems to me that if they thought as you did that it was “tacky” then you’d think they might have simply taken down the diary, contacted me to say why they did it and/or tell me it broke a rule or something (which I seriously doubt), etc… but to block my IP from ANY access and scrub me entirely?
DailyKos = Censorship
All in all though, I’m really glad that Olbermann covered the story – and yeah, he’s DA MAN!!!
We owe Mancow a big thank you for solving the debate over waterboarding and showing up his buddy Hannity. But I’m not willing to let Hannity go, as Olbermann has. Hannity uses the public airwaves and he must either keep his word, admit the debate is over and give money to his charity as if he did something or admit that he does not have the courage to keep his word. His integrity and the integrity of Conservative talk radio is still at question now. I, on Hollywood CLOUT! every night at 6pm Pacific/9pm Eastern, will continue to keep the pressure on.
Thanks Richard!
The bit about “letting Hannity off the hook” was disappointing to say the least; so thank you for your commitment to keeping up the appropriate pressure.
At least we can count on YOUR integrity!
Progressive Mews ~
I Feel Absolutely Terrible that they did that to you! I can see absolutely no legitimate reason for them to do that. In fact, that led to the best possible chain of events ~ IMHO (as I stated previously) … You should have been commended not punished ! I just put out an opinion …and you know what they say about opinions. . .
I have heard of thing of that nature you descibed happening over there hence the parody of the name. (was kidding) So with any luck cooler heads will prevail over there … Unless ya pullin my chain . . .
Olbermann is off the hook while Hannity is on in perpetuity . . .
As I see it the purpose of the torture was to Punish, Terrorize the opposition, Sadistic gratification, Confessions for propaganda and justification for war … if that ain’t WAR CRIMES I don’t know what is …
Richard, Good job … and now I’m glad to say GOOD STREAM !
~
Progressive Mews ~ you link on #4 Works just fine !
Olbermann’s a class act, all right.
Bamboo Harvester:
I just noticed today that my diary is back up! I SWEAR it wasn’t anywhere to be found in Google searches for at least a day or two. Maybe they heard me talking about the censorship? I certainly wasn’t quiet about it (here OR elsewhere). Who knows?
Thanks for letting me know though, I really do appreciate it!
PS – Did you hear Greene tonight on “Clout!” talking about where we should take it from here, in holding Hannity accountable? If not, you should know he was asking the audience for suggestions, and proposed a few ideas too; so go put in your two cents if you got ’em!