L.A. Registrar ‘Not Closed to Idea’ of ‘Pilot Project’ to Hand-Count Paper Ballots

BRAD BLOG Asks Dean Logan and Leon County, FL's Ion Sancho About Experimental Election Night Program for Small Number of Precincts

Q&A's on That and a Few Other Points of Note, Documented on Video During Recent Appearance in Los Angeles by Both Election Officials...

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— Brad Friedman

I had the opportunity to ask an important question of both the legendary Leon County (Tallahassee), FL, Supervisor of Elections, Ion Sancho, and Los Angeles County’s no-longer-interim Registrar of Voters, Dean Logan, last week here in Los Angeles.

Readers of The BRAD BLOG will remember Logan from his poor showing, as acting Registrar, in the handling of L.A.’s Super Tuesday “Double Bubble” ballot debacle, in which at least 12,000 mostly-perfectly-countable votes from the Democratic Primary went completely uncounted, as well as his handling of the failure I encountered myself, in the more recent state primary in June, when four of my own votes were printed incorrectly by the county’s ES&S electronic voting system.

Sancho was in town for press avails, in advance of the opening of Dorothy Fadiman’s new documentary Stealing America: Vote-by-Vote (opening for week-long runs in NYC on Aug 1st, and in L.A. on Aug 15th – DISCLOSURE: I appear briefly in the film). Logan, to his credit, was kind enough to show up, with his deputy Peter McNamara, for a screening of the film held by PDA last Thursday.

After the screening, Sancho, a compelling presence in Fadiman’s film, as he was in HBO’s landmark 2006 documentary, Hacking Democracy, answered questions, and the activists in the crowd managed to shoehorn Logan onto the stage to speak to a number of local concerns as well.

I took the opportunity to ask a few questions of both men, as captured by Alan Breslauer, with answers, on the video posted at the end of this article.

Of most important note, I wanted to know if either of them would commit to a hand-count of ballots in a handful of precincts this November, on an experimental basis, on Election Night. The count, in such a “pilot program” as I described it, needn’t be the official count, but could later be compared to the results as reported by both counties’ optical-scanners, since both L.A. and Leon County use paper ballots for their non-disabled voters.

As I’ve advocated to a few other election officials in the past, hand-counting in this small, experimental way would help us all to begin to compile data about the effectiveness — or even, lack thereof — of transparent, polling-place based HCPB (Hand-Counted Paper Ballots) on Election Night, as many Election Integrity advocates have called for…

While HCPB is still done in a few, often smaller jurisdictions around the country — perhaps most notably, and successfully, in some 40% of New Hampshire precincts — the practice has been routinely dismissed by doubters who charge that hand-counting at the polling place is impractical in large jurisdictions (e.g., Los Angeles, the country’s largest) or in places which have lengthy ballots with many candidates and ballot initiates (eg. California).

The most virulent of critics — let’s say, voting machine vendors, and many of their supporters — argue that hand-counts are less accurate than machine counts. The folks who make that argument have little data to back up their assertion and, usually opportunistically, point to Florida 2000 as their most well-known and frightening example of the dangers of hand-counting. However, what happened in FL 2000 was most decidedly not the sort of HCPB that proponents are calling for.

Setting aside the duplicitous political wrangling that occurred in Florida in 2000, where Republicans fought successfully to not have ballots counted at all, by hand and otherwise, the counting (or lack thereof) that Americans witnessed in 2000 took place at the state’s various county headquarters by a small group of counters from the local election boards.

HCPB, on the other hand, calls for fully transparent, polling place counting on the night of the Election, immediately after the close of polls, by citizen-volunteers of all parties, in full public view, with results posted immediately thereafter, before ballots are moved anywhere.

The disingenuous suggestion that somehow millions of ballots must be counted by a tiny group, as in FL 2000, making the process untenable, unreliable and impossibly long is without substance. The subset of ballots at any given precinct, HCPB-proponents argue, is small enough to allow for them to be counted manageably, quickly and accurately on Election Night, at each precinct, in full view of the citizen-stakeholders of our elections.

Hand-counting in a handful of precincts around the country this November, on an experimental test basis in such pilot programs, would allow us to begin to compile data as to the effectiveness and accuracy of HCPB. Doing so in a number of counties and in a number of states is, as I see it, a rather reasonable and practical step to take, if the necessity of citizen ownership, oversight, and transparency in elections is ever to be fully realized.

I have no idea what the results, good or bad, might be. That’s why such experiments are necessary and, as I see it, quite reasonable. As a framer, and original signer of the Creekside Declaration, calling for “citizen ownership of transparent, participatory democracy,” I’d heartily encourage such pilot programs all across the U.S. this year.

In response to my question for a commitment to such a project, Sancho noted that the state of Florida law disallows hand-counting of ballots, even in exceptionally close races, as the Orlando Sentinel shamefully detailed earlier this week.

California, however, has no such restrictions that I’m aware of. Furthermore, California has a provision in its Election Code (EC 19211) that allows for the “experimental use at an election in one or more precincts” of even uncertified voting systems, for official use in actual elections. “Its use at the election is as valid for all purposes as if it were lawfully adopted,” the code goes on to say about voting devices used under this provision.

Given that, and given that I’m not even suggesting that hand-counts in this experiment be done for the official count, but rather, in parallel with the officially certified systems, so that we might compare and contrast results, I can see no reason not to carry out such an experiment and find out whatever we find out.

While Logan declined to commit to such a pilot program then and there, understandably, he responded that he’s “not closed to that idea” and further pointed out that he’s carried out such experiments in the past.

“I’m not gonna stand here and make a commitment to a specific pilot project, tonight,” he said. “But what I will say is I have a history, both here and in my previous work in Washington, of doing pilot projects. So I’m not closed to that idea.”

Glad to hear it.

Bowen Has Shown Interest in Hand-Counting
California’s Election Code, as noted above, allows for experimental programs, such as hand-counting in parallel to the machine count as I’m suggesting, “provided provided that the use of the voting system or systems involved has been approved by the Secretary of State.” (EC 19210)

As CA Secretary of State, Debra Bowen was present in New Hampshire last January to observe hand-counting (see Why Tuesday’s two-minute video above right) during the state’s embarrassingly flawed Primary. Flawed, at least, in the 60% of precincts which chose to use known-hackable, error-prone Diebold optical-scan systems instead of hand-counts, without bothering to audit the accuracy of even a single ballot before publicly announcing the “results.” (You can see the exact same Diebold op-scanners used by NH being hacked before your eyes in Sancho’s own office, in this clip from Hacking Democracy).

So it seems to me that Bowen would be open to allowing such pilot programs here, should any county election officials in the state request her permission.

For clarity, I’m calling for ballots to be counted as usual, by optical-scan and/or or touch-screen as per each county’s practice, but I’m suggesting that before any ballots or memory cards are sent back to county headquarters for final canvassing, that they be delayed at the precinct to allow citizen representatives from all parties to carry out a precinct-based hand-count, the results of which will then immediately be released to all, and posted at the precinct. Afterwards, the county’s existing tabulation process will proceed as usual and will still serve as the official count.

Seems reasonable to me. I hope to speak more with Logan, to follow up on this, and I hope other Election Integrity advocates (read: good citizens) will work with their local election officials as soon as possible this year to try and coordinate similar pilot projects around the country. I can see absolutely no harm in doing so.

In California, the Election Code, Article 5, “Manual Vote Count in the Precinct,” sections 15270-15281, describes the official procedures for counting ballots in the state by hand at the precincts.

For other states, or even improvements on the current provisions in CA, the HCPB-advocates at the Election Defense Alliance have posted a downloadable Hand-count Handbook based on the very successful models as used in New Hampshire. The handbook offers excellent, step-by-step instructions for the process of carrying out secure, accurate, and transparent hand-counted elections.

Sancho Ends “Sleepovers”

My questions to Logan and Sancho, along with their answers, follow in the video below. It’s almost exactly 10 minutes.

In his answers to my questions, Sancho also speaks about how he’s changed Leon County’s procedures for deployment of voting machines following the security risk revealed in voting machine “sleepovers” at poll workers’ houses, prior to elections.

Such risks were revealed to be of grave national concern by The BRAD BLOG in great detail, in the wake of San Diego’s 2006 Busby/Bilbray Special Election aberration. We have also been credited for coining the term “sleepovers,” by the way.

“Once we ascertained that the vulnerabilities of the equipment were such that, in fact, at any unprotected moment you could insert a virus or a patch or alter the device,” Sancho said, “we no longer allowed the devices to be out of an official chain of custody, at all.”

Sancho noted, to applause from the assembled, that his machines in Tallahassee are now deployed to the polling place, “in steel cages,” on the morning of Elections. Unfortunately, despite CA SoS Bowen’s pre-election campaigning against the practice in 2006 — she even released a campaign video highlighting the dangers, and later declared her belief that the practice was “illegal” — she still allows the practice to continue in the state, albeit with new restrictions. Critics have charged, however, that her restrictions are not rigorous enough, and are poorly enforced.

After Sancho’s comments, Logan takes his crack at my questions. Though he says, as seen in the video, that I asked “about ten,” I was so appreciative that he showed up for the event at all, and agreed to take questions, that I bit my tongue to avoid cracking-wise in response that it was actually only three questions, which I’d have thought, as Registrar, he might have been able to count a bit more accurately.

So I decided to write the wisecrack here, instead of saying it there. Who says I can’t reasonably compromise?

(Thanks to Election Integrity advocates Jody Holder, Tom Courbat, and Gregory Luke for cites to legal references as used in this article.)

Prices now slashed in The BRAD BLOG’s 2008 Election Integrity Fund Drive! Please support our continuing coverage of your election system, as found nowhere else. Click here for a number of cool new collector’s edition Premium products now available starting at just $5!

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Reader Comments on

L.A. Registrar ‘Not Closed to Idea’ of ‘Pilot Project’ to Hand-Count Paper Ballots

20 Comments

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20 Responses

  1. 1)
    Steve said on 7/30/2008 @ 10:06pm PT: [Permalink]

    Unfortunately, most of these election officials will not ultimately agree to such a Pilot Project as proposed here by Brad because it would create conflict with the machine results and show how inaccurate the machines really are. This would obviously make their jobs more difficult and, as has been shown over and over again, for all too many of these officials the goal is a smooth election, not an accurate or transparent one. Such a Pilot Project would also obviously meet fierce opposition from the people who really now control our elections, the e-voting machine companies and vendors.

  2. 2)
    d said on 7/30/2008 @ 11:49pm PT: [Permalink]

    Along with the myth of voter fraud is the myth that hand counting of paper ballots is somehow impossible to achieve. Too bad you had to be practically apologetic about requesting a miniscule pilot project to do what we already know is the only transparent solution with the most accurate results of all methods. It is also the most cost effective.

  3. 3)
    Phil said on 7/30/2008 @ 11:56pm PT: [Permalink]

    They’ll never ever compare 100% with chain of custody and public oversight 100% of the paper ballots with 100% of the electronic vote tabulation devices.

    I am only wondering now, where we draw the line and when we give up our honest lives to defend our nation against these domestic terrorists who have destroyed our constitution.

    e.g. just say fuck it and end the oath breakers, and domestic terrorists game.

  4. 7)
    matt said on 7/31/2008 @ 3:07am PT: [Permalink]

    I think it’s a fine idea. Decentralized jurisdictions make for a diversity of approaches. Any official that feels their operation could be vulnerable to external tampering (or deliberate incompetence) would welcome the idea, as would folks who would like to explore the process as an easy and cheap way to automatically audit and troubleshoot.

    There are obviously be officials who would oppose such a program, and it would be terribly interesting to hear their justifications. Cheers to Brad.

  5. 8)
    TEDEGER said on 7/31/2008 @ 4:05am PT: [Permalink]

    Almost ANYTHING would be preferable to the misch-masch we have now. AS WE ALL KNOW, hand-counting and public posting is the ONLY answer – but it is resisted by the people who have their hands on the reins of power, principally because there is less room for corruption in HCPB. (And NO profit for the makers of the never-to-be-sufficiently-damned machines!) Until wwe return to a system that worked well for centuries, there will always be room to game the results. WHY do not our custodians recognize that?

  6. 9)
    Floridiot said on 7/31/2008 @ 5:44am PT: [Permalink]

    They all could really hand count if they wanted to at the precinct/ward level, like was said above, they DON’T want to know nothing about accuracy.

    All it would take is to count the votes electronically as a preliminary result, then go back and do a thorough hand count in precinct, then report the results to the county, differences and all (list as machine/hand count). The precinct captains (and witnesses) would go back the next day and check to see if the results they sent in to the city/county still match what they sent in the night before.
    I’m still trying to figger out what is so hard about this.

  7. 10)
    truthisall said on 7/31/2008 @ 8:34am PT: [Permalink]

    http://www.geocities.com/electi.../HAVAOnePC.htm

    HAVA Look: A Simple, Verifiable, Open Source Paper Ballot Vote Recording & Counting System

    TruthIsAll

    {Ed Note: TruthIsAll, I’m asking you again, PLEASE, stop putting such huge cut and paste jobs in the comments threads. Just give the link/s and maybe a LITTLE context. It’s in our rules for commenting; it’s been a long-standing policy; I’ve asked you via email, and on the threads…. –99}

  8. 12)
    sam wiseman said on 7/31/2008 @ 10:25am PT: [Permalink]

    I appreciate Ion Sancho and his work towards open source elections- I’m still curious as to why the focus seems to be hand marking or hand counting paper ballots –
    When you hand mark- don’t you open the door to a lack of reconciliation ? Every time we let the voters scribble on the ballot- The count never reconciles – I guess this is OK unless it’s a close race.
    Hand counting is great as long as you need quick results- Personally, I don’t care if it takes weeks- but some might want to go faster.

    sam

    {Ed Note: “Sam Wiseman” is Brent Turner of Open Voting Consortium, posting yet again as a different identify despite having been warned multiple times that that is against our few commenting rules here. Mr. Turner has been banned here for refusing to follow the rules and posting under multiple identities, spamming his advocacy for his voting company, Open Voting Consortium, in every post. If you are unable to follow the few simple rules for posting here, Mr. Turner, I can’t why anybody would think your company, OVC, should be entrusted with counting *anybodies* vote, open source or otherwise. – BF}

  9. 13)
    Brad Friedman said on 7/31/2008 @ 10:48am PT: [Permalink]

    Sam Wiseman –

    I’m gonna presume your comment and questions are for real, as opposed to the disinformation that they might otherwise appear to be.

    When you hand mark- don’t you open the door to a lack of reconciliation ? Every time we let the voters scribble on the ballot- The count never reconciles

    That comment is completely without substance. Hand-marked paper ballots “reconcile” just fine. Further, they allow for easier recognition of fraud (see Richard Hayes Phillips book, Witness to a Crime, for example, looking at the hand-marked ballots in OH and how they easily reveal the fraud…if one bothers to actually look at them!)

    Computer printed ballots can be easily gamed, and studies show that voters don’t notice when votes are flipped on them. Electronic ballots (such as on touch-screens) can be verified by nobody. Not even the voter.

    They may “reconcile” just fine (depending on what your interpretation of that is), but there is no way to know if they actually represent the voters’ intent.

    As to suggesting…

    Hand counting is great as long as you need quick results

    …I don’t even know what that’s intended to mean. The argument has been made that we need *electronic* tabulation, because it gives us faster results. Setting aside whether that’s true or not, I’m not sure I’ve heard anyone argue that hand counting is great for “quick results”.

    Hope that helps answer to some of what seems to be a whole lot of confusion on your part.

  10. 16)
    Jody said on 7/31/2008 @ 10:26pm PT: [Permalink]

    EC 19211 does not allow unapproved voting systems to be used in any election, even on an experimental basis. No voter wants their vote cast or counted in an experiment with an unapproved voting system.

    Hand counting paper ballots at the precinct level has and is being used as a valid and legal method of counting votes both here in California and in other parts of the nation and world. It is not a pilot program or experimental method.

    What has not been done is to hand count paper ballots on election night at the local precinct level concurrently with running the same ballots through an optical scanner. One would have to make the sample of precincts large enough to make the experiment valid.

    Rather than classify this as an experiment it could be described as a test to determine the effectiveness, accuracy, and logistics of hand counting paper ballots at the precinct level. It also would provide an audit of the results produced with the electronic voting system.

    I think that the citizens of this country have serious misgivings about the accuracy of our more recent elections, especially of the results reported by electronic voting systems which have repeatedly shown themselves to be unreliable, much more expensive than originally claimed by the vendors, and concrete evidence of prior inaccurate results.

    I am afraid that the vendors would strong-arm any local election official into resisting any test that may show the current generation of electronic voting systems for what they are; unreliable, and inaccurate.

    Hopefully California will have several courageous and patriotic local election officials that would be willing to try such a test in the interest of increasing citizen confidence and involvement in our elections.

  11. 17)
    sam wiseman said on 8/1/2008 @ 5:26pm PT: [Permalink]

    99 you are a Maxwell Smart one- Brad, unfortunately you go to the back of the class on this one. It was a wee bit of attempt at wry bread. Sometimes my humor is served up like a Canter’s matsa ball soup.

    As far as the lack of reconciliation point – that’s a huge point against “ Hand Marking” – I think as mentioned above, printer dispensed ballots are obviously preferable. The systems should be open source and reviewable, but just as importantly the paper ballot should not be in any way shape or form ambiguous or subject to poll worker interpretation- Plus with a ballot printer, you never run out of ballots – and you don’t overprint so our county would save dough-

    As far as hand counting- I’d say there are good arguments for and against- The media seems to announce winners fairly early, which is problematic. They need to be corralled. Same with pollsters. Bad news.

    Quickness of the first count seems to be an issue with HCPB— maybe the ballots should be publicly scanned – with the public participating. At the precinct level. Maybe even webcast it.

    Thanks for the report, Brad- I hope our beloved LA rights the ship. We can celebrate that day ( with a sandwich at Canter’s ) –

    Go get ‘em

    Sam

    {Ed Note: “Sam Wiseman” is Brent Turner of Open Voting Consortium, posting yet again as a different identify despite having been warned multiple times that that is against our few commenting rules here. Mr. Turner has been banned here for refusing to follow the rules and posting under multiple identities, spamming his advocacy for his voting company, Open Voting Consortium, in every post. If you are unable to follow the few simple rules for posting here, Mr. Turner, I can’t why anybody would think your company, OVC, should be entrusted with counting *anybodies* vote, open source or otherwise. – BF}

  12. 18)
    Brad Friedman said on 8/2/2008 @ 11:28am PT: [Permalink]

    Sam Wiseman –

    While I’m happy to have the sandwich at Canter’s with ya, it sounds, from your followup, that I was more right than wrong here.

    If you’re talking about “Print-on-Demand” ballots, that’s one thing. Where blank, un-voted ballots are printed out, in the needed language, for voters as they sign in. To be filled out by the voter thereafter with their selections. (I believe FL is experimenting with same, though the technology has not been widely deployed at this time, and I’d need to know it actually works before endorsing it.)

    But if you’re talking about ballots that are printed out by the computer, with the purported choices of the voters printed onto those ballots, that would be a big no go, as far as I’m concerned.

    Quickly summarizing the reasons why:

    + Votes are easily flipped/mis-printed by the computer, due to either software error or hacking. (See what happened to me when voting in L.A. last June.)
    + Most voters don’t check such print-outs to check for accuracy (as shown in several studies).
    + When voters *do* bother to check their ballot at the end of the computer process (as most *don’t*, as noted above), two-thirds of them fail to notice that there vote has been flipped by the computer (see Rice U. study from Summer of ’07).
    + Finally, even if voters manage to check their printed ballot (a big if), and even if they manage to notice vote flips (a bigger if), there is no way for citizens to *know* that they did either of them after an election when examining those ballots.

    In order for *me* to have confidence in an election, I need to be able to look at every ballot that I want to, and be able to have reasonable assurance that I’m looking at the voter’s intent. There is no way I can know that I’m looking at the voter’s intent, when looking at a computer-printed ballot.

    Hand-marked paper ballots are the only way to go that I know of. Counting them is another matter which can be fought about as folks see fit. But if they aren’t hand-marked, we have no evidence to discern whether or not they truly reflect the voter’s intent.

  13. 19)
    sam wiseman said on 8/4/2008 @ 10:24am PT: [Permalink]

    {Ed Note: Comment by Brent Turner of Open Voting Consortium, posting as “Sam Wiseman” again deleted. Mr. Turner has been banned here for refusing to follow the rules and posting under multiple identities, spamming his advocacy for his voting company, Open Voting Consortium, in every post. If you are unable to follow the few simple rules for posting here, Mr. Turner, I can’t see why anybody would think your company, OVC, should be entrusted with counting *anybody’s* vote, open source or otherwise. – BF}

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