I should say first off I don’t have a dog in the hunt. I support neither Obama nor Clinton in this nomination race and couldn’t tell you now whether I’d vote for either of them next November. I’ve stated long ago that both of those candidates have plenty of supporters, so I’ll be supporting the voters this year, since they don’t have nearly enough support.
With that said, this morning’s meeting in the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee (RBC) has been an interesting one to watch. All sides in the unfortunate matters of fighting over how to seat (or not) the delegations from Florida and Michigan at this year’s national convention have argued smartly for their various cases.
But where the DNC’s RBC is concerned — no matter which candidate the various members of the committee may already be on record as supporting in general — there should be only one consideration in their ultimate decision: what will be best for the party itself and whichever candidate ends up being their nominee.
Everyone at today’s meeting spoke in general consensus that party unity is key. If that’s truly their belief, then every side in the dispute needs to place unification first as the top priority for any final rulings on whether and how to seat the MI and FL delegations at the Democratic Convention.
To that end, the version for those with short attention spans: The party must agree to the Florida compromise which nets a 19 delegate advantage for Clinton while giving delegates at the convention a 50% vote. They must also agree to the Michigan state party’s compromise of awarding the Michigan delegates 69/59 in Clinton’s favor with a 50% vote at the convention.
And while it’s not necessarily germane to the decisions being made by the DNC RBC today, Rep. Robert Wexler of Florida should be made Barack Obama’s Vice Presidential nominee.
For the longer explanation of the above, please read on…
BLAME NEW HAMPSHIRE…
While initially I was willing to hold the Democratic parties of both states responsible for having violated the party’s rules by holding their primaries earlier than deemed allowable by the DNC, both have been, at this point, punished enough by the loss of campaign money, campaign appearances by the candidates, and the opportunity of party loyalists to offer their say in the decision of who will be the party’s nominee.
Rules of a political party are not laws. Voting in a private party’s nominating election is not the same as voting in a state or federal election. Adjusting those rules mid-game, should the party so choose, is their prerogative. Nominations of private political parties are not the equivalent of a plurality rule voting in an election to determine seating for local, state or federal office.
By the rules of both parties, nominating elections are decidedly unfair. (Keep in mind that the Republicans have decided to only give 50% voting strength to delegates from FL and MI as well, but few discuss that — not even Republicans — when they opportunistically try to paint the DNC as anti-democracy or anti-voter in light of the messes they must now clean up in FL and MI). The DNC’s rules, from the start, are not like the one person/one vote principles (followed or otherwise) in local, state and federal office elections. The Dems have chosen to give disproportionate power to a handful of hand-selected party insiders known as Super Delegates. Those Super Delegates can — both legally, and as per party rules — swing any nomination they wish against the preferences of the voters, and in favor of whomever they prefer.
It’s unfair, but it’s their party. Even if the rest of us are stuck with it until we do something about it.
So while the Dems should have worked out this mess long ago, they had little idea that they’d be in this place now. They thought they’d be where the Republicans are today: with a consensus nominee having emerged, without the need for anyone to adjudicate, or even notice, that the process was decidedly unfair to the party voters of MI or FL.
Where the DNC had found that states who ran early primaries — in defiance of a party directive that would punish those states by not having their delegates seated at the national convention — there also exist party rules and provisions that allow them to vote around that previous directive and change it.
The Dems have already done so. In defiance of party directives, New Hampshire’s SoS Bill Gardner unilaterally moved his state’s primary to a date earlier than allowed by the DNC calendar. The party voted to give his state a “waiver” to do so, since one of the premises for the calendar they adopted in the first place was to allow Iowa and New Hampshire their privileged “first in the nation” privilege to hold the first caucus and primary.
That delicate privilege has already been under challenge, as the DNC had previously convened a commission to examine whether other states might be brought into the nomination process earlier in the calendar, so as to make that process nominally more fair and diverse to the rest of the voters who don’t happen to live in Iowa or New Hampshire.
New Hampshire would have none of it, and the suggested plan to hold another caucus or two after Iowa’s and prior to New Hampshire’s primary was almost single-handedly defied by NH SoS Gardner, who took his state’s privileged position and proceeded to squander it in a horribly run election, which failed to protect the right of citizens to properly oversee and verify the results of what should have been a transparent and secure process. The NH Primary, finally, was anything but transparent or secure.
As Dennis Bright, a senior campaign representative for Dennis Kucinich’s told me early on, after the anomalous results came in from the NH Primary — where Obama declined his right, for a mere $2000, to have every ballot counted for accuracy — New Hampshire no longer deserves their privileged status.
“It’s ludicrous,” Bright said of the cost being charged to the Kucinich campaign to count the state’s paper ballots, since Gardner refused to do so on anything but the very same Diebold optical-scan systems which have been shown time and again to be easily hacked (watch it yourself right here) and otherwise prone to simple error.
“New Hampshire has the privilege of being the first in the nation. This election brings in $3 billion dollars to the economy, so you’d think a measly 70k would be part of the cost of doing business,” he said. And he’s right. If NH won’t count every ballot transparently, they certainly do not deserve either the billions of dollars or the privilege they gain from their special status.
What is happening today in the DNC’s meeting is not democracy. It is party politics. The nomination process itself, for both major parties, is built on party politics. It’s their party after all. While there are democratic (small “d”) procedures nominally built in to the process, and when elections are held, all votes should be counted, the fact is that both the DNC and RNC decided in advance they were not going to. They proceeded with a process known to be flawed and they didn’t care. All pretenses that this is a fight for a mythical “popular vote” are just that: pretense, not reality.
So with all of those thoughts in mind, along with consideration of the impassioned arguments made by party reps from both MI and FL and the supporters of the candidates from each state at today’s meeting, here is the way I’d recommend the DNC RBC proceed in regard to this ridiculous matter, such that it might be best for both the party and the voters.
THE FLORIDA FOLDEROL…
There seems to be (largely) consensus here. That’s good. A plan has been forwarded that will give the pledged delegates a 50% vote each, and the super delegates a full vote. The result will be an advantage of 19 pledged delegates to Clinton. She and her supporters should take happily take it.
That’s close enough to “fair” in that both candidates were on the FL ballot, neither campaigned there and Clinton received more votes, reportedly, than Obama.
Obama takes a small delegate hit that won’t effect his overall claim to having won more pledged delegates nationally than Clinton, and Clinton can claim the somewhat-misleading talking point prize of having “won the popular vote” nationally if she insists.
Although that prize disrespects the states that chose to hold caucuses, rather than primaries, for the sake of party unity, if she wants that prize, Obama and his supporters should allow her to have it to do with as she pleases.
I’ll note that while many have called for Clinton to step down long ago, since it had become largely impossible for her to win the majority of delegates and thus the nomination, short of a sudden landslide of super delegates declaring support for her, the nomination race itself will have been won (if all proceeds as it seems like it will) by Obama, though by hardly anything representing a landslide.
It was a very close, hard fought race on both sides, where Obama was successfully able to edge out Clinton. While her behavior during the race was, at times, was remarkably ill-considered, nonetheless she garnered a tremendous amount of support and her second place finish will have been very closely won.
Obama supporters need to recognize that fact. The compromise plan, which seems to have the support of most sides, as well as a majority of the RBC, is a good one. Or as best as you’ll be able to get without destroying the DNC.
Additionally…Rep. Robert Wexler (D-FL), who argued brilliantly for both Obama and the voters of the state of Florida, should be named Barack Obama’s Vice-Presidential running mate.
He has been one of the few members of Congress who has truly fought on behalf of the people, the Constitution and the voters over the past decade of chaos and coup, and as a favorite son of Florida, he could help deliver the Sunshine State for the Democrats this year in a way that only the naming of Florida’s Gov. Charlie Crist as Veep on the Republican ticket could potentially counter.
Wexler is also Jewish and ardently pro-Israel which, needless to say, will come in handy in both Florida and the rest of the country as the filthy Republican attempts to swiftboat Obama as “a secret time-traveling Nazi Muslim”, which has already begun and which, you can bet your bottom dollar, will increase 10-fold in intensity between now and November 4th.
Finally, Wexler is also among the few names that I can think of who appropriately matches the “Change” promise that Obama has been running on for so long.
Wexler for Veep, obviously, is not up to either the DNC or its RBC. It’s up to Obama. But I think the move would be a very smart one with consideration to both the general election and the all-important party unity that is needed right now in order to win the state of Florida this year.
THE MICHIGAN MESS…
The case here is a much more difficult one to adjudicate fairly. In fact, there is no outcome that can be seen as fully fair. The best that can be had is for a baby split that accommodates the needs of both candidates and their supporters close to equally. Neither candidate will like it, but too bad and too late. It’s the best they’re going to get, and it’s the best for the party.
While Obama had removed his name from the ballot, since the primary in MI — as even Clinton admitted many moons ago — “wouldn’t count,” and since he arguably was hoping to curry favor in Iowa and New Hampshire by doing so, it’s equally important to a Democratic victory in November to move towards party unity in Michigan as it is in Florida.
“Uncommitted” received some 40% of the vote in the MI primary, which was clearly a vote for Obama, and to a lesser extent Edwards (who now supports Obama, so can fairly “lend” what would have been his delegates over to the Obama side at this point).
The Clinton camp is arguing to apportion delegates 73/55, in her favor, taking what would have been her rightful number according to the reported election results. That, even though her name appeared on the ballot and his didn’t.
Obama’s team, in the person of former Edwards supporter Rep. John Bonior, argued for a 50/50 split between both candidates.
And finally, the MI state party, whose position was argued by Sen. Carl Levin, has come to a middle-ground compromise of 69/59 favoring Clinton, and giving the benefit of the doubt to Obama based on who Exit Polls reported voters were voting for, and on the enormous 30,000 or so write-in votes that were not counted under MI’s bizarre rules, but which most likely went to Obama and/or Edwards.
To their discredit, a number of party operatives on the RBC, and certainly the majority of cable news talking heads, took the opportunity, once again, to declare that “Exit polls are not accurate.” Even if they are accurate enough apparently, to be used by those same cable channels in helping to determine the winner in states well before votes are actually counted. (For the record, The BRAD BLOG believes Exit Polls are at least as accurate, if not more so, then most election results as counted on the wholly unreliable, wholly untransparent method of electronic voting and tabulation used in most states and counties across the country.)
But whether or not Exit Polls are accurate, and whether or not the decision to give Clinton what would amount to a 10 delegate bump (though halved to just 5 delegates if those votes are then counted at 50%, as Florida’s likely will also be), Clinton will come out the “winner” here as well, in terms of both delegates gained and the popular-vote “win” she continues to hang her hat on.
Both Clinton and Obama should accept the MI state party’s recommended, decidedly imperfect, middle-ground compromise and move forward.
Clinton will get the better of the deal, at least on paper. But Obama can best absorb such a “loss”, and the edge to Clinton will subsequently give (or should subsequently give) her supporters an opportunity to show some love in return to Obama in exchange.
The DNC needs to come to agreements with the state parties in each state. That’s the first step towards re-unifying the party. It’s also the smartest thing the Dems can do at this point, as they hope for the best beyond this foolish, but classically-Democratic (large “D”) tendency to grasp for defeat wherever and whenever it can be found within the jaws of victory.
A FINAL NOTE ON THE DNC AND TO SUPPORTERS OF OBAMA AND CLINTON…
We congratulate the DNC on the (largely) transparent process they’ve been playing out for all the world to see, as televised on national TV today. While the RBC has been late in coming back from their “lunch break”, with speculation rampant that they are power-brokering behind closed doors, the process has decidedly not been one that took place in a “smoke filled room”.
It’s difficult to imagine an internecine Republican National Committee battle taking place quite as openly, and airing as much very wrinkled — if not dirty — laundry for the whole world to watch, discuss and complain about in the open.
Ultimately though, victory this fall will be up to the supporters of both Democratic candidates, and arguably more so on the backs of whichever candidate does not win the nomination.
That means, most likely, that Clinton supporters — who, not without some justification, have argued that their woman would be more “electable” — better be prepared to jump on the Obama bandwagon should things play out as they seem to be headed.
The same, of course, is true for Obama supporters should Clinton somehow manage to turn things upside down and walk away with the nomination.
Moreover, the party leaders in both states must lead the way — big time — in getting behind whoever the party’s nominee will be. Though the state parties in both state’s were not fully responsible for this mess (particularly, the Republican legislature in Florida had a huge hand in knee-capping the Dems down there by voting to move up the primary), but they have their fair share of culpability, and damned well better fight like hell for the nominee, no matter who it turns out to be.
The fact is, the Republican nominee — in this case, John McCain, but whoever it might have been — oughtn’t even be a player in this year’s contest. The Republicans, as I see it, have disqualified themselves from even the privilege to contend for the highest office in the land, given their reprehensible, unforgivable, wholly-illegal, completely extra-constitutional behavior of the last eight years.
Nonetheless, they are running someone for the job, which I’ll concede remains their legal right. But after these last eight years, the Democrats should have been able to take the White House with no less than a 70/30 popular landslide this fall.
That should still be the case if the supporters of both Obama and Clinton come together as the writing solidifies on the wall, and work their asses off to make sure every American who wishes to cast a vote is able to do so, and to have that vote counted and counted accurately for the first time in a Presidential election in twelve years.
If you Democrats aren’t able to pull that off, then you will have deserved whatever government you get. Even if it’s headed by John McCain.
The trouble is, the rest of us don’t deserve that. So you people better get your act together between now and November 4th. And hopefully sooner rather than later.
Wouldn’t it be a good thing for candidates to promise no matter who wins to demand a hand count of all ballots wherever it is possible?
I fail to see how Clinton, MI, FL which all 3 violated party rules should be rewarded anything.
If anything Clinton should be PENALIZED, and FL, MI should have no say in the primaries.
As usual Democrats roll over & piss on themselves.
Then again in reality we should all be voting for Green Party candidates anyway.
They all have been. With the exception of Clinton, perhaps, even though her supporters believe that she has been.
Nonetheless, it’s not about what the right thing is, vis a vis the rules, it’s about what’s best for the party, and should be. Whether you or I or anybody else may agree or disagree.
I cannot begin to tell you how disappointed I am in the Democratic Party and its Rules Committee’s decision on how to seat the Florida and Michigan. How can you decide to only seat some of the delegation or to take away their votes? How can you decide to award delegates to people who weren’t even on the ballot in Michigan? What on earth is the party doing? What message does the party send to its members and to other citizens in the United States when it strips away the votes its citizens? It DOESN’T matter that you warned the states not to move up their primaries!!! You don’t punish the elected officials and state parties who made the BAD decisions by stripping away the votes of your party members!!! How does that make sense? How short sighted of you all – after the voting scandals in Florida in 2000, especially! I cannot see any way around this – I used to wonder why people voted against their own best interest – i.e. why poor people would vote for Republican candidates, etc? I am starting to understand. It becomes clearer to me every day that the party elite and their groupies who control this party are out of touch with reality and are more concerned with their own position and status within the party than they are with doing the right thing or caring for their party members. Bye! Good riddance. You won’t get any support from me in the future – I’ve made that mistake for the last time. I will not reward your irresponsible behavior with support in any way, shape, or form – no matter who your candidate is.
#4
#2
The end result of such attitudes are extra votes for McSame. People need to vote Democratic.
Yes, in a perfect world progressives would be running the country. Hopefully someday. It’s not like we have the option to give up.
FL and MI should carry no delegate to the convention! It should be explained to the registered democrats that their respective State Party Leaders failed them by breaking the rules, understanding full well of the consequences and they should subsequently be removed from their respective positions as State Democratic Leaders, period! Howard Dean along with New State leaders need to organize to unite the FL and MI Democrats reassuring them that their participation is paramount toward the Election of Democrats in the general election and that the primary waters have flowed under and past the bridge. Are the FL and MI Democrats really going to support a Republican for President because their Party Leaders failed them and will not unite behind a Democratic candidate? If so, then they deserve what they get!4 more years of Bushism and neo-liberalconservatism.
As a political junkie, up until today, I had been content in feeding my political jones with my daily incursions into the Liberal/Progressive bloggesphere. However, todays ruling by the DNC/RBC concerning Michigan’s delegate allocation compels me to speak out. The DNC/RBC’s decision concerning Florida, though not perfect was just, in that the delegates were allocated proportional to the VOTES cast in the election! Yet, Michigan’s delegate allocation bears no resemblance to the election it purports to represent! To give a candidate 59 delegates, equivalent to the vote of 276,562 Michigan VOTERS, when the candidate did not receive a single vote in Michigan’s officially certified election, is unjust, undemocratic, un-American. To then compound their blunder by confiscating 5 legitimately won delegates from the afore mentioned candidate’s opponent, equal to the votes of some 23,437 Michigan VOTERS, shows a marked disdain for Michigan’s VOTERS, their candidate of choice, as well as their own RULES and BYLAWS. This can not , shall not pass!
I think the compromise is appropriate and I think that Barack Obama will be an excellent president.
You know Brad, the very same thought briefly crossed my mind this morning, Wexler for VP…for about 10 seconds.
Seriously, we need Robert to remain focused on the task as hand, impeaching bush and cheney for their high crimes and misdemeanors.
Wexler’s demands for Scott McClellan to testify before the Judiciary committee will do wonders to revealing the pack of lies the bushies used to start their war of choice against iraq, and why they had to commit treason (outing plames ID) and pardon libby to cover it up.
I can’t wait to see the rats flee once the indictments begin to roll out of the hearings.
I agree that Wexler would be a great choice for VP–but you missed one of the best reasons. The VP candidate must be the tough guy, the attack dog. Everyone watching the meeting today saw that today he outsmarted, outtalked and out-argued the vaunted Harold Ickes. Nobody is going to Swift Boat Wexler.
I am with Thick-Witted Liberal, above. I also would like to see Wexler as the VP running mate considering the courage and initiative he is taking to press for impeachment of Bush and Cheney based on Constitutional principle and obligation.
Good write-up, although the Clinton campaign actually pushed for zero MI delegates for Obama. Funny, too, how that came out under questioning but not the opening statement for at last one Clinton supporter, who argued we must be fair without bothing to define what he thought would be fair.
“”The end result of such attitudes are extra votes for McSame. People need to vote Democratic.””
Ummm NO, the reality is that people need to pull their head outa their arse long enough to see that the Democratic party is nothing but Rethug lite at best, just as corrupt, obviously complicit in the crimes committed the past 8 years. Only difference is they aren’t quite as insane.
People need to vote Green Party in massive numbers and stop this insanity.
Until we do then NOTHING is going to change to help us bottom 98%ers.
Blacks used to be 3/5ths of a person.
They were 10% better off than voters in Florida & Michigan.
Legislatures in those two states moved their primaries ahead because the primary game was rigged.
Has been rigged for decades.
The party’s solution was to penalize states who sought a fair hearing & to leave the rigged system in place.
With no plans for anything fairer the next time.
But it makes no difference anyway.
Hillary comes to the convention bolstered by unhappy dems from Florida & Michigan. That’s not going to be good. I thought the 48-state Union ended in 1959.
You want a compromise? Obama’s the nominee. Nothing can change that. Give Hillary everything she wants, make the voters in Florida & Michigan happy (whatever it takes), then appoint a blue-ribbon panel & charge it with finding a real solution for 2012. Such as one, single, nationwide primary on, say, March 15.
Obama is still the nominee. A generous solution & both he & the DNC would have looked magnimonious. Hillary would have gone down to noble defeat – rather than the bitter one she’s been handed.
“Winner take all”, aka scorched earth, “doing the right thing,” “sticking to the rules,” “handing out necessary punishment,” etc., by whatever name it is called, is simply an incentive for more resistance. It solves nothing, as we will see.
Obama has the hallmarks of the inexperienced boss, who, when things are going his way, is all sweet-talk & nice. When they’re not, it’s My Way or the Highway. Jeremiah Clark is a problem? Solution: Denounce Jeremiah. Leave his church! Campaign advisors get into trouble? Fire them.
You can do this in a small shop. You cannot do it in a bureaucracy without bringing it to a standstill. Remember Newt Gingrich & his foppish ideas for government management? It is hard to believe that we must endure more of this kind of management.
and how in he hell could awarding ALL the delegates to Clinton in MI be fair considering Obama abide by the rules set by the Party and did not even get on the ballot in MI.
Nobody should receive a single delegate from MI.
We have a state that broke the rules set by the party, a candidate that broke the rules, to give either of them ANYTHING shows how spineless the Democrats are.
Especially since in reality it doesn’t make ANY difference at all, Obama has the nomination period and he like most all the other candidates abide by the rules.
Having said that, Vote for the only REAL CHANGE candidate. Cynthia McKinney 08′
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03cOM9r51Nw
What presidential candidate has issued articles of Impeachment against the Treasonous Bush/Cheney crime syndicate?
Obama? Clinton? *chuckle* McBush?.
Only McKinney.
What candidate has publicly stated the FACTS about 9/11?
Only McKinney
What candidate has publicly stated the occupation of Iraq was based entirely on bald faced lies and was/is immoral & unjust and that Bush/Cheney and all their minions should be prosecuted for War Crimes?
Only McKinney
What candidate has publicly stated that both the 2000 & 2004 elections were stolen?
Only McKinney
What candidate actively marches in every protest she can for the Iraq war?
Only McKinney
The corporate media flatly refuses to even acknowledge that she exist let alone is a Presidential candidate, that should tell you something right there.
How many times now have Democrats voted to continue funding this illegal immoral unjust Occupation of aggression in Iraq?
You are being played for fools and what is really sad is that most Americans are perfectly OK with being constantly LIED to.
Time to WTFU.
How could anyone in their right mind vote for anyone else?
Voting for the “lesser of 2 evils” is still evil and pathetic.
http://www.allthingscynthiamckinney.com/node/319
http://www.allthingscynthiamckinney.com/audio/play/349
This outstanding speech by Bruce Gagnon should be mandatory listening to every American voter that actually gives a shit about this country.
http://www.allthingscynthiamckinney.com/node/349
Best way to listen to it is just open it with VLC player if you don’t want to download it.
http://www.videolan.org/
Excellent post, Brad. One additional comment, as I don’t understand how it has been so over-looked by EVERY JOURNALIST and pundit covering this hooey (thanks tho’ to DUMPTHEDLC in post #7 for touching on it): THE FLORDIA DEMS ARE WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE for this mess as they DID NOT OBJECT to the REPUB LEGISLATURE moving back the date of our primary.
In fact, they were EVEN ENTHUSIASTIC about breaking the rules, devil-may-care and “screw Howard Dean buttons” and the myopic, ego-centric mantra, “ALL EYES ARE ON US” at the coo-coo for cocoa-puffs FLORIDA DEM CONVENTION held at Disney World back in October. I went up to ORLANDO to film and witness, because I couldn’t understand how this was happening. What I saw and filmed was so APPALLING, I haven’t had the STOMACH to review it long enough to edit/post it.
Even tho’ CANDIDATES were NOT ALLOWED TO ATTEND the convention–among other PRO-CLINTON EXTRAVAGANZAS there was a HUGE BIRTHDAY PARTY for HILLARY CLINTON (in absentia) with a cake the size of a football field being unhappily dished out by exhausted and beleaguered DISNEY BANQUET employees. The kind of money being thrown down the toilet on Hillary’s behalf was unreal.
Even more disgraceful, KAREN THURMAN, FDC chair is ON THE PAYROLL of the FLORIDA REPUBLICAN chair–and yet NO ONE from the NATIONAL MEDIA ever bothered to find that out, ask her about her conflict of interest (what a shocker.) CONFLICT OF INTEREST for those who hold higher offices in FLORIDA seems to be a running gag–practically MANDATORY for the resume; necessary in order to play their silly little reindeer games. The fact that this all took place at DISNEY WORLD only made the whole thing even more surreal…
everything in sight was a plastic, hyper-lie.
On the last day, there was a motion to REMOVE KAREN THURMAN as a result this BOTCHED PRIMARY SITUATION–by one very brave Rep.GEORGE MAUER (Key West?) that was SHOUTED DOWN by ALL the DEM DELEGATES. They crucified him while honking on mightily about “party unity”.
As a FLORIDA VOTER and a CLEAN ELECTION ENTHUSIAST, it has ANGUISHED me to watch the DEMS self destruct like this. I feel the compromise reached yesterday is adequate, and have NO WISH to see my fellow FLORIDA VOTERS scrubbed from the process time and time again, election after dirty election through NO FAULT of their own.
That being said: WHY THE HELL WASN’T THE FLORIDA DEM PARTY EVER HELD ACCOUNTABLE for their BALL-LESS, SPINELESS LACK OF OBJECTION to the STATE REPUB LEGISLATURE’s dastardly decision?
For all the ink this has gotten, how has this IMPORTANT INFO been ignored/ scrubbed from the PUBLIC RECORD?
Brad,I thought you of all people, the one who has always said people’s votes should be counted as they cast them, would stand up for Michigan. It really defies your insistence that you are unbiased. What you wrote above is a contradiction of everything you have always insisted you stood for. Very disappointed .
Schlmarm –
How does my article defy my “insistence that [I am] unabiased”? How is it a “contradiction of everything [I] have always insisted [I] stood for”?
Doesn’t surprise me at all Jeannie.
The whole country not just FL are being played for fools.
It is really a shame that we no longer have an honest non bias Media, I don’t trust a single word they say anymore.
If Hillary wins the nomination, it will feel like cheating.
One simply has to vote Democratic for President. When it was Ross Perot, I was all for it. Buchanan? Go nuts! But a vote for Cynthia McKinney is a vote for John McCain. That’s a fact. Anyone voting for McKinney would never vote for McCain. They would have voted for the Democrat.
I don’t see anyone disagreeing with the fact that this government stinks with war crimes and all the other nonsense. But let’s get real. A vote for McKinney is a vote for McCain. If we took a poll, I think public opinion would agree with me.
I also agree the DNC decision was a good one. The delegates were proportionally rewarded based on a fair assessment of the unfair elections that went on in Florida and especially Michigan. Now the people who call themselves Democrats need to grow up and not become just like the hateful, petty Republicans. As far as third party candidates, yeah I think Ralph Nader should have been president a long time ago but I’ve gotten over it. Grown ups make decisions based on the best realistic choice and not ones based on fantasy. I believe Barrack Obama will be that best choice. I would also like to see Hillary Clinton as vice president. I don’t see how this ticket couldn’t win.
Soc said:
Depends where ya live, Soc. In a “safe” Democratic state, a vote for McKinney (or Barr) is federal money in future elections to the Green (or Libertarian) parties.
I see it like this, the Republicans do a bunch of evil stuff, then the Democrats throw a bone now and then to make things seem like they’re getting better, but when the most important things come up, the Democrats always seem to forget to tie their shoestrings and trip and fall, letting yet more evil stuff get through. Over time things just get worse and worse. The fourth estate is completely owned by corporations now and it’s not in their interest to shine a bright light on the most basic incredibly fundamental things, common sense goes out the door, and everything stays in stalemate while the thieves clean out our wallets.
Otherwise, we’d have more independents, greens, libertarians in the final race, they’re effectively removed by the forces that be…CFR, PNAC? who cares, it’s just a game to them, a game that is costing us lives and destroying our nation.
Otherwise, we’d have active development of HOD (Hydrogen On Demand) and Magnetic Engines vs. Electric cars and Hydrogen Cell, BioFuel nonsense. It’s easy for this to be played down cause everyone learns physics from textbooks so they are taught it can not be done, and don’t bother to try, the few that try are laughed at, and murdered.
Otherwise, we’d have cheap solar cells on all our homes nationally and mandatory to feedback into the grid.
Otherwise, we’d have no dark fiber, and all this anti net neutrality nonsense would be done with. The powers that be don’t want us to communicate, otherwise we’d become independent.
All the profit takers are perfectly happy with having no Constitution.
Otherwise, we’d have a ban on all electronic tabulation devices. Common sense physics. But that’s not what’s going to be allowed.
Otherwise, the fed would put a stop to games that have created the now $100 Trillion dollar debt (Yes it’s that high, I was wrong when I said $65/62 Trillion.)
There truly is a war on voting, both Democrats and Republicans are guilty of it, Republicans with their nonsense, and Democrats with their allowing the nonsense to continue.
Was it really the Democrats fault that these couple of states are in the situation they are in with delegates, or was it the Republicans changing things and the Democrats just laying down and not barking up a storm.
I am pretty sick of the whole dog and pony show. It’s getting to the point where I wonder if it even matters if we vote at all. Will I keep voting, yeah, for now.
PS, I don’t care if all my facts are not right, I am damn close. Feel free to correct things. I admit when I am wrong., but this is a rant.
Peace. End Rant.
“”But let’s get real. A vote for McKinney is a vote for McCain. If we took a poll, I think public opinion would agree with me.
Depends where ya live, Soc. In a “safe” Democratic state, a vote for McKinney (or Barr) is federal money in future elections to the Green (or Libertarian) parties.””
Soc: Nope sorry but it is that mentality is why 3rd party candidates never get a fair shake.
It is stupid BS talking points put out by BOTH the current duopoly parties.
A vote for Cynthia McKinney is a vote for McKinney PERIOD, it is a vote for BY FAR the better candidate PERIOD.
People need to vote their damn conscience for once instead of this vote for the “perceived lesser of 2 evils” BS.
Obviously you didn’t listen to the speech I linked by Bruce Gagnon.
The Democrats are bought and paid for by the top 2% and Military Industrial Complex just like the Rethugs are, this year they are getting 52% of that money unlike previous years where they only got 30% that should tell you all you need to know.
Brad: That is mostly correct.
Although it doesn’t have to be a “Safe” state either, for instance if you live in Utah or some place equally deep blood RED then at least make a difference with your vote and get money to the Green Party.
As citizens we MUST stop this hideous voting for the alleged lesser of 2 evils crap, that is NOT free and fair elections when the FAR SUPERIOR candidates never have a chance because of this mind set.
I have voted Green the past 4 elections and will vote Green in 08′ as will my wife and at least 40% of everyone that I know.
That is because we have seen behind the curtain and are sick and damn tired of the status quo, the Democrats are really no better than the Rethugs, IF they were then they would have contested the 2000 and 2004 elections until justice was done,, they would have Impeached these criminals infesting the White House, would have stopped funding this illegal, immoral, unjust occupation of Iraq, I can go on & on & on.
Some of the democrats talk a good talk but in reality only about 2-4 of them are worth a shit the rest are just as guilty & corrupt as any Rethug is.
I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR WHOM I KNOW TO BE CORRUPT.
Indeed McSame is crazy as a loon, but either Clinton or Obama would be only very marginally better.
We will still be in Iraq, the Patriot Act, MCA, etc will still remain in effect, these treasonous war criminals will walk away scott free with War Crimes, Crimes against humanity, Treason.
To me that is 100% UNACCEPTABLE and I WILL NOT vote for it to continue.
Now if everyone voted like that then McKinney would win by a landslide and things would change.
So whom are the ones that are throwing away their votes? Whom is it that is “really” voting for the same BS to continue decade after decade?
Those that vote for the far superior candidate that would effect real change or those that vote for what they perceive as just the lesser of 2 evils?
Oh and BTW Soc, “Public opinion” would probably also agree with you if you were a Creationist lunatic that believed in Creationism over the overwhelmingly proven Evolutionary Theory.
In other words the general public is just as ignorant & gullible as a potted plant. Which is another reason we are in this mess in the first place.
Now the minorites votes only counts for 1/2. At least in the Jim Crow clause they counted for 3/5ths a votes. I see Democrats are back to their old pre-civil war days.
This has nothing to do with “Minority votes” this is merely Democrats trying to shut everyone up by compromising and changing the rules in the middle of the primary.
In reality it doesn’t make any difference.
Be nice if Democrats were like they were back in those days, maybe they would fight a little bit once in awhile. They probably had more Statesmen back then also instead of these crooked lying ass bought and paid for politicians we have today.
Brad, thanks for clarifying. If the vote is close, then people should vote for the Democrat unless they want McCain. I voted for Nader in 2000 because Gore had Massachusetts wrapped up.
Hey Brad, if by chance you read this, what’s up with the Democratic Underground censoring one of your posts?
link
#152 was deleted. But Lindeman’s post critiquing the deleted one remains. How is DU a fair place?
Smithy repeated Rush Limbaugh’s monologue today with:
Golly, Smithy. You’re good at re-typing Limbaugh, but not as good at doing actual thinking or research on your own.
The RNC also penalized MI and FL by counting their votes for 1/2. I guess Rush forgot to mention that to you today?
Nunyabiz said:
Fair enough. And point taken. Though I would argue that there are no “equally deep blood RED” places in these United States anymore. That would include Utah.
A vote for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for the 3rd party candidate, no more – no less.
Democracy isn’t about voting for X so Y doesn’t win. Democracy is about voting for Z, the candidate who will make the best president in the voter’s opinion.
Besides, as Nader put it…. (loosely quoted) ‘if the democrats can’t win this election, they should disband’. He’s right. That doesn’t mean I’m going to vote for them.
I’ve voted republican once (Reagan) and democrat once (Kerry), and my democrat vote was just as wasted as when I vote 3rd party (which is every other election). Moreso actually, since I wasn’t voting with my instincts and knowledge of the candidate, I was voting to keep the ‘other guy’ from winning.
Wow, just saw this.
Brad, as far as I am concerned, you just destroyed your reputation.
Anyone who thinks of themselves as a “voting rights activist,” yet cheerleads a result that reduced Florida and Michigan voters’ “power” to 1/2 of people in other states, is a hypocrite.
I’m stunned.
“result that reduced Florida and Michigan voters’ “power” to 1/2 of people in other states, is a hypocrite.”
This is complete BS.
Number one Fl & MI election officials are the ones that reduced the “primary voters” power because they broke the rules. In fact they should have had ZERO.
Number 2. Obama was not even on the ballot in MI because he went by his parties decision and abided by the rules, so how would giving ALL of the votes in a state that broke the rules and only had one candidate on the ballot be fair to ALL THOSE VOTERS IN MI THAT WANTED TO VOTE FOR OBAMA?
Be stunned all you like, I would suggest WTFU though and realizing that this really made no difference in the outcome of the race and pretending that Brad of all people just “destroyed his reputation” over something so trivial and the fault of those respective states and no one else is making yourself look foolish.