Guest Blogged by Alan Breslauer with additional reporting by Brad Friedman
Unbelievably, the Chief of the Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division, U.S. Department of Justice, John Tanner, contends that while it’s “a shame” that elderly voters may be disenfranchised by new Photo ID restrictions at the polls because many don’t have driver’s licenses, minorities don’t have to worry quite as much. Why? Because “minorities don’t become elderly the way white people do. They die first.”
Yes, that’s what Tanner said last Friday at the National Latino Congreso in Los Angeles and The BRAD BLOG was in tow with video camera to prove it…
The NLC kicked off their 2nd Annual convention over the weekend, including an expert panel titled, “It’s Not Over – Defending the Right to Vote Against Disenfranchising Tactics.” While many issues were covered over the course of the 2 1/2 hour panel, the most hotly debated subject was the current rash of GOP-pushed Photo ID laws sweeping the nation, just in time for the 2008 Presidential Election.
Tanner — and we’ll repeat it again, he’s the Chief of the Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division at the U.S. Department of Justice –seems to believe that restrictive Photo ID laws are not only non-discriminatory but actually favor minorities (at least in Georgia). All of the other expert panelists, audience members, and even one particular vocal cameraman (that would be me), were incredulous, and found Tanner’s comments absurd and objectionable.
The BRAD BLOG has long been covering the use of the GOP Photo ID scam, meant to do little more than keep minorities and the elderly (read: Dem-leaning voters) from being able to cast legal votes at all. They created a White House-tied front group to do exactly that after the 2004 election (special coverage page on ACVR here), and our coverage of recent chapters in this regrettable, anti-democracy tale includes (Vice) Presidential candidate Duncan Hunter’s claim at a Republican debate that in California, he’s seen “people that are illegally in the country being rounded up, herded into the polls [and] voting illegally.”
As well, Democratic Senators Barack Obama and Russ Feingold recently stepped up to block a deal made by Majority Leader Harry Reid to allow one of the most notorious “Voter Fraud” disenfranchisers, Hans von Spakovsky, to be seated on the Federal Election Commission (FEC). That, in a Presidential Election year where the GOP’s strategy #1 will be to “win” by keeping as many legally registered voters from voting as possible.
In the first of several exclusive video clips below, Tanner states that Voter ID laws “very much [are] a state by state issue” that come down to “who has the ID and who doesn’t.”
“I think it’s probably true that among those who don’t, it’s primarily elderly persons. And that’s a shame,” he said, adding “You know, creating problems for elderly persons just is not good under any circumstance.”
With it apparently okay to disenfranchise the elderly, Tanner then goes on to contend that minorities, on the other hand, are not disenfranchised by such laws.
“Of course, that also ties in with a racial aspect, because our society is such that minorities don’t become elderly. The way that white people do. They die first,” Tanner explained to those of us in the room.
“So anything that disproportionately impacts the elderly, has the opposite impact on minorities. Just, the math is such as that,” he said, concluding, “The minorities in Georgia, statistically, slightly, are more likely to have ID.”
In other words, Tanner concludes that Photo ID laws actually negatively impact non-minorities and seemingly give minorities a greater voice.
Yes, incredibly enough, that’s what he was contending. Even as he failed to satisfactorily answer The BRAD BLOG’s fervent contention that such laws are little more than a solution in search of a problem, given the exceedingly rare number of voter fraud cases (as distinct from election fraud) which actually occur, even by DoJ statistics, and which would be prevented by Photo ID restrictions at the polls.
Behold…
UPDATE 10/9/07: TPM picks up on our story, quotes Tanner’s predecessor and other former colleagues at DoJ saying his comments are “frankly ludicrous”, “false” and “cherry-picked”. Full details here…
Other panels members discuss Photo ID laws, and respond to Tanner’s extraordinary comments in additional clips below…
Aurora Vasquez of the Advancement Project exposes (6:21) the true intent of Photo ID requirements being pushed nationally by the GOP, and offers an impassioned response to government attorney John Tanner.
Alma Rosa Silva-Banuelos, Executive Director, Cultural Center for Power and Justice (Albuquerque, NM), discusses (6:45) many of the voting problems, including voter intimidation and the spread of misinformation, confronting New Mexico’s minority communities. Interestingly, an election in New Mexico last week where Voter ID was required saw a record low turnout of 10% of eligible voters.
Alma Rosa Silva-Banuelos: “It’s time to remember our civil rights movement. It’s time to remember the struggles that our elders have gone through. People who have paved the road. And it’s time for young people also to rise up and remember these struggles. And also to stand up against corporate profit. The machines in New Mexico… there is a corporation profiting off of this. We cannot forget that there is a direct link between power and profit and corporations and our governments being used as puppeteers so that other people can profit at the disenfranchisement of communities of color.”
University of Pennsylvania professor Steve Freeman says (4:43) that fixing our election system is as simple as adopting the successful paper ballot hand counting systems used in countries like Germany and Canada. He then proceeds to rip government attorney John Tanner for his role in covering up election irregularities in Ohio. Finally, Freeman vocally disagrees with the panel moderator who asked that participants stay away from specific criticisms.
The Justice Department’s John Tanner states (1:30) that he doesn’t support Voter ID because his department is not involved in policy, before taking a question from one testy cameraman who calls his statistics evidencing that minorities carry ID in greater percentages than non-minorities laughable.
Alma Rosa talks (0:58) about the need to change our instant gratification culture in order to make hand counting ballots more palatable to society.
The Justice Department’s John Tanner’s opening, mundane remarks (9:03), which were a bit offensive for what they did not cover.
Oh. My. God.
Already sent it to several friends who work for this freak.
I’m glad someone mentioned that the agencies statistical evidence is likely just made up when it claims that blacks and hispanics (cuz that is who they are talking about) have ID at greater rates than whites.
It would help rally people to this cause if we stopped talking so obliquely about it. Voter ID is about voter suppression of black folks in the southern United States.
Thanks for covering this stuff, Brad. I don’t always agree on your focus or emphasis, but I’m glad you’re fighting.
Steven Hertzberg of the Election Science Institute has been all over the internet. I believe the following is big news, and I am hopeful that all truthseekers will help get to the bottom of this now emerging scandal. Please help figure this out and spread the word. Exit polls do not lie. The 2004 elections were stolen, and a mickey mouse, hack and shill, election reform group like E.S.I. should be looked into. So exit polls were good for Ukraine but not America? WTF? Why has Steven Hertzberg been a prolific poster at a nutjob website like breakfornews.com? Is Steven Hertzberg a paid astroturfer? Every vote must be honestly counted.
Steven Hertzberg Needs to be Investigated for Fraud
why are you liberals so against this common sense law? shouldn’t everyone be required to prove their identity before voting? are you against it because illegal criminal aliens will be precluded from illegally voting? we all know that the vast majority of american citizens will not be disenfranchised. this is a red herring issue.
Liberals will do anything to cheat to win any election. They will never stop until they destroy this country for everything it stands for.
Among other things, how breathtakingly illogical.
I just want to emphasize for Brad Blog readers, there is a non driver photo ID option available at the drivers’ license center. My daughter is blind and will never drive. She has been voting since age 18 however, in both states where she has lived since turning voting age. Please support people is getting what they need to be empowered, regardless of ethnic background age or disablility. Thank you. Take back the Republic!
Draco asked (though we suspect he knows the answer):
They already do. a) When they register to vote, they must prove their identity as per HAVA, and for first time voters who registered by mail, ID must be given as per that federal laws. And b) Most states already have ID laws. ID is not the problem, but specifically PHOTO ID, of a very limited nature, is the problem.
In the states where Photo ID laws have been implemented (or attempted to be implemented, before being found unconstitutional) such as Missouri, there were already six different types of ID allowed for identification at the polls.
But the Republican voter disenfranchisers there wanted to make it so that ONLY a driver’s license would be permitted. Knowing full well that hundreds of thousands of MO voters don’t have such a license. Even military ID cards were not allowable in many of these states.
But you probably didn’t either know that, or care, I suspect.
Well, let’s see. You give me the evidence for all of these “illegal criminal aliens” voting, and then we can talk. Good luck. Since even the Bush DoJ was able to come up with, I believe, one, in the five years that they’ve been pushing this red herring in order to disenfranchise largely Dem voters.
Yes, the “vast majority of americans citizens will not be disenfranchised.” Explain that to the 10 to 30 million American citizen’s who will be disenfranchised.
It sure is. And as soon as you can call off your unAmerican, anti-democracy GOP friends who are pushing it, we’ll be in great shape.
with a name like draco we wouldn’t expect you to get beyond the idea of imposing yourself on whoever whenever its about making sure the lowest common denominator is empowered…..get it..
Now how stupid is this?
*why are you liberals so against this common sense law? shouldn’t everyone be required to prove their identity before voting?*
Casting an illegal ballot is already against the law. People who do it should be punished. I DO NOT have to prove myself innocent.
And…WHAT are the Democrats doing about this?
Does this guy think we buy his bullshit, “In other words, Tanner concludes that Photo ID laws actually negatively impact non-minorities and seemingly give minorities a greater voice.”??????
HOW, exactly, does putting up ANY roadblock to make voting NOT easier, help ANYONE? This is totally illogical, and bullshit. Remeniscent of GOP bullshit such as Reagan saying he started taxing unemployment to make it “less attractive”, and trying to lower minimum wage to “help workers.”
ANY law that makes voting more difficult does not help voters! That’s pretty simple. What is the Democrats response to this?
Well it should be obvious that the Dems will do what is best for the country; Follow the republican lead! Maybe even declare that challenging the id rules is OFF the Table.
Big Dan,
OT here, but have you been here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendigo?
Really? Third world person not living as long?
Amazing.
I can’t believe you people are so stupid. Just go to the Census 2000 web pages and see for your self.
Historicly minorities do not have the same life span as whites. Fewer make it to social security rolls. Its just fact. You may not like that answer but there it is!
Everyone who votes needs and ID.
No Terry, everyone that votes does not need a Photo ID. They need to be registered to vote. But the do not need a photo ID. One summer I went out on Lake Natoma (in California below folsom lake) with a friend, who flipped the boat over. Many things were lost, my wallet, my keys.
Oh yeah and the one guy that say’s he can solve everything in ONE DAY. I don’t agree about the OP SCANS. If you want to use an OP SCAN, use it to get a rough unofficial estimate. NOT TO TABULATE THE VOTE. OP SCANS fail (I Have several screwed up scanners) OP SCANS MAKE MISTAKES (I have op scans that make hell of mistakes) OP SCANS HAVE PARTS THAT CAN BURN UP (can you really say what is inside each silicone chip is what is supposed to be there?)
Congrats! Outstanding work!
Draco says:
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
… draco said on 10/8/2007 @ 8:34 pm PT…
why are you liberals so against this common sense law? shouldn’t everyone be required to prove their identity before voting? are you against it because illegal criminal aliens will be precluded from illegally voting? we all know that the vast majority of american citizens will not be disenfranchised. this is a red herring issue.
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
First, YOU answer THIS question:
Why are you NON-LIBERALS always proposing ways to make voting more difficult for American citizens? Where is your proof of voter fraud? There is none! Therefore, YOU just want to make voting more difficult for American citizens!
Is this easier to vote: One day you can vote without photo ID…then you can’t.
Draco, tell me how this ISN’T making voting more difficult!
Furthermore, people like you don’t stop there! You’ll want ANOTHER voting roadblock AFTER that! You just want to make voting more difficult for American citizens, and that’s un-American! Making voting more difficult, and for FALSE reasons to boot such as non-existent voter fraud (proven by the FACTS) is un-American!
Voting should be made EASIER, and YOU are trying to figure out ways to make it HARDER! There should be same-day registration! Are you against that? I’m sure you are…I GUARANTEE you are! Post if you are for or against same-day registration…why shouldn’t all American citizens have that available?
Any MORE ways you’d like to make voting more difficut for American citizens?
Everyone should be allowed to vote regardless of anything. If you can show up to the polls then you should be allowed to vote.
“No taxation without representation” was good at that time but now people only consider income tax and not sales tax and other hidden taxes, including paying for parking while trying to BBQ at your local park.
how dare anyone practice bar-b-queuing!
Is this right: Someone’s been voting for 40 years and now they need photo ID. They skip lunch at work so they can go vote, they wait in line, go to vote and realize they FORGOT their photo ID! So they don’t get to vote, because the only time they had, was to skip lunch!
Or, an elderly person couldn’t get out to get a photo ID, but has been voting for years.
I suppose, if there was a campaign to go door-to-door to get these people photo ID, they’d be accused of something, too! By the same people who want the ID! They’d be saying, “The Democrats are going door to door to get people photo ID…we’ll have to think of some way to stop this!”
So, is that making voting for American citizens more difficult? OBVIOUSLY, YES!
{Ed Note: Deleted racist crack. –99}
Unfortunately, this is status quo for Tanner and many of those who are “in charge” in the Voting Section. Everyone in this country, not just the civil rights community, should be outraged that the people in charge of implementing the VRA not only believe such things, but believe them so vehemently that they say them freely to the public.
Big Dan, #18 and #21
I am going to address these arguments with the Indiana Law that is currently being challenged in the USSC. I am doing so because this law has withstood several lower court challenges, and could very well become the template for the photo id laws across the county.
#18 “Why are you NON-LIBERALS always proposing ways to make voting more difficult for American citizens? Where is your proof of voter fraud? There is none!”
You argue that no such fraud exist, yet the plaintiffs (those who were trying to overturn the law) in the Indiana case admitted that such fraud IS a problem in other states.
Since the Democrats have admitted such fraud does exist, it is a little late for you try to argue otherwise.
#22 “Or, an elderly person couldn’t get out to get a photo ID, but has been voting for years.”
Your premise assumes that this elderly person is disabled. Under the Indiana Law, those who cannot get out can vote absentee without a photo ID.
The question before court is not if this type of law is a burden on the people, but is it an undo burden.
I am not sure how to predict the outcome of the USSC case. With the Kelo case in mind, I can’t help but think this is a left leaning court who will overturn this law.
Since some cross checking is supposed to go on at the polls when you vote, wouldn’t a phony voter ID require a phony voter registration? Wasn’t HAVA partly about cleaning up voter registration?
If the problem of phony voter ID is epidemic, and it certainly doesn’t pan out that way, it would also take a phony registration to pull it off, wouldn’t it?
In which case the ID issue is quite irrelevant except as a ruse to keep people from voting.
Maybe a person could vote as someone else if that someone else didn’t vote or was dead- but trying to do that is pretty darn risky. Epidemic? Hardly. If it were it would be an indictment of the ineffectiveness of HAVA and election offices around the country.
Badger #26
“Since some cross checking is supposed to go on at the polls when you vote, wouldn’t a phony voter ID require a phony voter registration?”
As it is, without an ID, people can come in and claim to be someone else, receive a ballot, and vote that person’s ballot.
The Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and James Baker, noted some election problems in the last few years.
A couple of examples. November 2004 election. King County, Washington, the governor race was decided by 129 votes. There was evidence that voters who were dead cast a ballot. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, there were more than 100 cases for people voting twice by using fake names, or false addresses, or voting in the name of a dead person.
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/report/CFER_section1.pdf
Their report released on September 19, 2005 recommended photo ids as a way to help public confident in our elections.
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/report/CFER_summary.pdf
The real problem here is not the ID requirement at all. The problem is the election clerk has no way of knowing that the person presenting themselves to vote is the person on the voting roll. One way to solve this problem is for the county to send out voter registration applications to each county residential address and require that the applicant appear IN PERSON to finalize the application which would include a photo. Said photo can be transferred to the voting roll electronically and the roll can be updated periodically. Put the onus back on the bureaucrats to maintain accurate records, not the populace in general. Each county in America should identify the LIVING residents within its borders. The Drivers License in the US is not a cure all identity device. Are the voting clerks going to have remote tie in to the state DMV to verify that the DL is legit???? I don’t think so.
Brad, call me pessimistic, but there seems to be a hive of lack-of-election-integrity shills swarming and I think summary evaporation would be the only cure. My strong suit is definitely not coping with the chronicity of evil, sights ever on progress….
Let’s not forget Bush argued the current Social Security system is unfair because Blacks die early.. and the solution was private accounts.
Boston Globe Article
Once again the DC crooks throw the election and attention is focused on the voter. Tanner wants witnesses? A Mr. Feeney testified before a congressional panel that his boss a Ms. Wang was contracted to write software to throw the elections.And Mr. feeney said he wrote the software.The criminals are in the whitehouse and Diebold corp. How long Oh Lord till the disenfranchised persons vote is counted? And the caging issue has not been addressed because the judges are bushco tools. The “man” that has gutted our constitution and become dictator was not even elected. What a sick farce this nation has become.
Well blacks do not live as long as whites, but hispanics live longer. So he is somewhat right as far as blacks.