Guest blogged by Winter Patriot
I don’t know whether you’ve noticed, but I have: billions and billions of op/ed pieces coming out every day lately, purportedly “debunking” the so-called “conspiracy theorists” on the subject of 9/11. A glutton for punishment, I read as many of them as I can get my grubby little hands on.
One thing they do — one thing they all do — is fasten onto one or a few of the least plausible suggestions ever advanced by anyone who didn’t believe the official story of 9/11, shred them (yes, very easy to do!) and then act as if such shredding nullifies every question raised by every person who does not believe the “official conspiracy theory” of 9/11.
The logic is stunning in its simplicity. It’s as if — bear with me; this gets better — you’re at a football game with sixty or seventy thousand other people, and a stranger sitting next to you says to his buddy, “They’ll never score if they don’t start throwing the ball!” And now suppose the next play is a straightforward running play and it goes for a touchdown.
Without necessarily being a professional logician, nor a master of sciences theoretical or applied, but simply as a semi-intelligent human being, you should be well-equipped to answer the following question:
What conclusion can you draw from this incident?
If you said:
“NOBODY IN THIS WHOLE STADIUM KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING!!“
then you could be missing out on a career as a “9/11 conspiracy-theory” “debunker”!!
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill.
I’m smiling, friends, but I have the knives out. Look, here’s something I found from Adam Harvey, in Australia: [my emphasis, here and elsewhere]
An exhaustive investigation by Popular Science stripped back each conspiracy to its core set of facts, and then used science and logic to reveal the truth behind the myth. A new book, Debunking 9/11 Myths, details the magazine’s findings.
Popular Science found each conspiracy theory was supported by little more than shoddy research, misinterpretations of evidence, and leaps of logic that would embarrass a primary school student.
Ooooohhhh, did I hear “shoddy research”? You’re ringin’ my bell, Adam Harvey! Let’s talk about shoddy research, shall we?
First of all, this is the internet so we need a link. Maybe an op/ed piece for a print-only newspaper can be fact-free, but on the net if you want to claim any credibility at all, you have to have at least one link!
So LOOK: this is the magazine Adam Harvey is writing about.
Note the date: March, 2005. Note Harvey’s refreshingly current narrative:
Impressive, isn’t it? Hey, this guy’s good!
No, wait! It gets better: Note the magazine’s title.
Do you see
No??? That’s because it’s Popular Mechanics!!
Good goin’, Adam.
Let’s have a big round of applause for Adam Harvey, ladies and gentlemen, for his keen work on the front lines of the great American culture war, where he debunks the purveyors of shoddy research!!
Adam Harvey! What a putz!
Now look over here:
“The fact that you don’t have evidence to support your theory doesn’t mean that the other theory is true,” says Mr Barnett, from the Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts.
Did you catch that last bit? That there was one beautiful sentence, but the way it was packaged here constitutes perhaps the most perfect example of flawed logic one could ever ask for.
In other words, Run that by me again??
Well of course it doesn’t! Who ever said it did?
Ah, I remember now! Nobody ever said that, but somebody implied it.
Now who was that? Popular Science, of course — I mean Popular Mechanics!
Did you recognize it? Maybe not — I didn’t catch it myself the first time. The quote from Mr. Barnett is pretty abstract. So let’s flesh it out a bit, and re-cast it in terms relevant to the situation under discussion. What he’s really saying is:
In other words, Jonathan Barnett, of the Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts, is saying that the methodology used by Popular … um … Mechanics! … wasn’t worth the paper it was printed on!
But Adam Harvey ran that quote anyway, in a context where it made no sense — unless you re-parse the beginning of the preceding sentence:
and for “theorists”, you read “official story theorists who wrote the piece in Popular Mechanics“.
Now it makes sense again:
Now think about this for a moment: that PM article is slick!! There’s no way something that sophisticated could have been produced by people who didn’t know what they were doing. And that means that the people who wrote that very slick piece must have known that any football fan who says: “NOBODY IN THIS WHOLE STADIUM KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING!!” is a fool!
So … are they counting on their readers being fools? I didn’t say they were. Nor did I deny it. Nor would I.
I’m not going to say any more about Adam Harvey and his great big stupid lie. It’s too easy to make fun of this guy; it’s too easy to make fun of this article. What a putz!
But I will switch gears for a moment and examine another piece about the loony “conspiracy theorists”, from Michael Shelden via England’s Telegraph:
The CIA couldn’t have organised this…
Michael Shelden runs through the usual array of trickery and tactics to try to make his point without actually having one. In a few instances it backfires on him in a very humorous way. Note this passage in which he denigrates the academic qualifications of the group, and impugns the intelligence of James Fetzer in particular:
Don’t bet on it. Most of them aren’t scientists but instructors in the liberal arts at second-rate colleges who have spent much of their careers tilting at various windmills. Professor James Fetzer of Minnesota, for example, thinks that JFK was killed by several shooters […]
First of all I would expect Michael Shelden to show some respect for these “instructors in the liberal arts at second-rate colleges”, considering the fact that he himself “is professor of English at Indiana State University”; hardly a grand bastion of academic progress, is it, Professor Sheldon?
Jim Fetzer has a Ph.D. and a mind like a hot scalpel. How about you? What have you got?
Oh, right! You’ve got:
As a matter of fact, the House Select Committee on Assassinations found (through investigation of acoustic evidence provided late in their investigation) that at least four and maybe even five shots were fired in Dealey Plaza that day, and that Lee Harvey Oswald could not possibly have fired so many shots in such a short time, and therefore they concluded that JFK was killed by multiple shooters: they said it was “probably” a conspiracy — presumably leaving open the possibility that the “multiple shooters” just happened to be operating independently; in other words it could be that “two lone nuts” did it. But there was definitely more than one shooter. That’s the conclusion of the House Committee. They were the last official body to investigate JFK’s murder. And therefore their report is the officially accepted version of the day’s events.
What all this means is that Michael Shelden just got caught trying to smear James Fetzer based on knowledge that Fetzer has — and Shelden lacks!
Wee-Haahhh! Lookin’ Good, Michael!! You da Mannnnn! What a putz!
In the large view, this is all trivial bickering: the main dish is the so-called evidence.
According to Michael Shelden,
I suppose that depends on how smart your scholars are. It took some people less than a day to figure out what had happened and what it all meant, and they would have been able to explain it to everybody in a lot less than five years if the big-mouthed know-nothings like Michael Shelden and Adam Harvey would shut up and let them talk … and provided nobody sent them anthrax.
Right! All of which make the official story seem somewhat fishy! This is a credibility issue, Michael: if they lied to us about all thos things, why would anyone assume they were telling the truth about anything else? I’m not saying that lying about casualties, over-reacting about everything, slipping the so-called PATRIOT Act through Congress in the middle of the night six weeks after 9/11 are indications of an “inside job”. What I am saying is: be very careful — you know how reliable these people are — don’t take anything they say at face value.
Yes, rumors about Iraq’s capabilities and intentions were spread, but this was not an accident. It was a deliberate policy implemented by the White House Iraq Group. If both Republicans and Democrats did beat the war drums and join in the same frenzy, perhaps it’s because both groups were getting doctored and incomplete intelligence. And that was another deliberate policy of the White House.
Come again? Bush wanted to invade Iraq before he even became president — which, to remind Michael Shelden and anyone else who has lost track of the time-line, was BEFORE 9/11. And nobody in his or her right mind wanted to do anything to Iraq because of 9/11; we were told at the time that 9/11 was connected to Afghanistan!
Please notice that NOWHERE in this discussion has Michael Shelden written anything that had any bearing on the question of whether 9/11 was an inside job. NOT ONCE! I’ve turned it into a conversation in order to show that nearly everything he’s saying is FALSE; not because it’s relevant.
In other words, all this talk of Iraq is meaningful only in that it shows how the new history of the USA being constructed. One great big stupid lie after another.
I find it incredible that anyone could use the phrase “21st-century Pearl Harbor“ in this context and still pretend 9/11 was as it appeared to be.
But there’s been a lot of pretending going on for the past five years so I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.
How’s this next bit for stupid?
Whoa! If it was the Second World War all over again, then we’ve got the cast all wrong: we need the USA standing in for Germany — invading defenseless countries on false pretexts, among a great many other crimes — and that means Bush lines up squarely behind Hitler. And that makes perfect sense too.
Iraq would have to be Poland — or Austria, maybe. One of the small countries overrun by the aggressors early on, anyway. But George W. Bush’s grandfather would still be Hitler’s personal banker.
The distortions and outright lies peddled by Michael Shelden cannot possibly be accidental. In other words, his shoddy essay couldn’t possibly be a case of shoddy research. Shelden is deliberately lying here, and he’s actually pretty good at it. Not good enough to sneak past the BS-detectors you’ll find around this blog, but pretty good nonetheless.
He isn’t a good enough liar to lecture us about the internet, but that doesn’t stop him trying.
The Ohio University poll provides one clue. It found that the people who were most likely to believe in the 9/11 conspiracies were those who “regularly use the internet but who do not regularly use ”mainstream” media”.
Well, what does that tell you? Internet users will tell you it’s amazing how much real news is available from all over the world, and not just news but history and science and art and much else of course, that’s not available in the “mainstream media” and never will be.
Did you stop to think about the fact that people watching TV or reading the paper are passively absorbing the news and opinions they get, without ever being able to ask a question? Or to express their own opinions? Whereas people using the net are looking for what they want, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to come along?
For me the most important benefit of the net is the peer-review aspect of it. If I post something that’s wrong, somebody is going to bring it to my attention. The last time it happened was on the “Mother Jones” thread. Take a look; it’s not pretty. I messed up, a reader pointed it out, I fixed it, we moved on, la-dee-dah.
Quite the contrary, I assure you. Most of the people I know on the net are more intense about 9/11, and finding the real truth about it, than those who sit on the couch and watch mainstream news. You’re right it was grotesque and in order to understand it you have to deal with some bizarre notions. But unfortunately the history of our country — especially recently — is littered with bizarre notions.
Including this one: Michael Shelden has done us a favor by marking his key point so we can’t miss it. Here’s his best shot:
And there you have it, folks: Illogic twisted upon lies and spiraling in on itself in such a way that it can no longer be disentangled without grave danger. But I will try:
First of all, Shelden has never indicated just who he thinks the “supposed conspirators” were. Most of the “9/11 Truth” people I talk with — not that I’ve done a formal survey, but most of the ones I know — are Truth Seekers; not Proclaimers of so-called truth.
In order to make us go away, you can’t just wave some half-assed “theory” at us and shout “that’s been debunked!”, because we don’t have half-assed theories. We have questions. And in order to make us go away you will have to answer our questions.
Most of us have no idea what happened … but we do know that the official story cannot possibly be true, and we want an independent investigation. Period.
Second, no matter which suspects or which crime, observations of what they did in the years following the crime cannot possibly constitute proof of their innocence.
So — LISTEN! pay attention, now — if this is Shelden’s best argument, then he might as well just come out and say: “It must have been an Inside Job!”
Third, and most dangerous in my estimation, Sheldon makes too many unfounded assumptions. If events subsequent to 9/11 have revealed anything at all, it is this: this administration’s aims are never what you think they are. They are always running a secret agenda.
They could have won the war in Iraq quickly if they had wanted to; but they didn’t want to. The generals who dared to suggest that Rumsfeld wasn’t taking enough troops into Iraq were shunned — and worse! Do you remember? They were assuming Rumsfeld wanted to win the war and withdraw. But that was never the plan.
Josh Marshall was writing about the “let’s get bogged down in Iraq” plan back in 2002, but nobody was listening.
Marshall wrote then that they wanted to get bogged down in Iraq so they would have a pretext to stay there indefinitely. He wrote that they wanted to get so badly mired in Iraq that no presidential candidate in 2004 could plausibly run against the war — so that the contest would be between two pro-war candidates and therefore the war would go on regardless of who won the election. And Josh Marshall was right. They got exactly what they wanted.
They had always wanted to start a civil war Iraq. And they funded and organized death squads to hasten the process along. Now they have what they want.
And their opponents say “it’s a mistake!”
Argggh! Some opponents!!
It’s about empire, Michael. It’s not about revenge. And it’s definitely not about terrorism.
At this point, the only people who consider the Iraq War “a mistake” or “a failure” are those who didn’t — and still don’t — understand the administration’s objectives in waging this war, and its implications. They don’t understand the objectives or the implications of 9/11, either. And so-called journalists like Adam Harvey and Michael Shelden like it that way.
Welcome to The Ministry of Truth, the Orwellian information department where journalists rewrite the day’s news, where any aspect of the nation’s history can be changed at a moment’s notice. Or no notice at all. All your current knowledge will now be deleted. Thank you.
Very nice exposition, WP. This is my favorite quote:
“The most persuasive argument against a conspiracy is the profound incompetence that subsequent events have revealed at every level among the supposed conspirators.”
Although he has a point here, it’s only relevant if you cling to a monolithic conspiracy. That was probably not the case. There were at least four or five elements involved in the conspiracy, including Cheney and Silverstein and Mossad and Bin-laden. The different elements demonstrated varying degrees of competence, and the most competent are the least visible in subsequent events–no surprise there! To argue that Bushco is incompetent and thus there was no conspiracy demonstrates either a pathetic lack of imagination or deliberately facile logic.
Are there links to Sheldon and Harvey?
Yes, medicis. They are highlighted in the text near the first quotes from each boob mentioned.
All these Neofascist are crawling out from under their rocks and woodwork and spewing their bile because they are running scared.
At very least 42+% of the USA knows the Bush administration is GUILTY of being complicit in the 9/11 attacks, myself I think the real figures are higher than that, most likely we are in the majority because every single internet poll you see asking whether the Government was complicit is almost always saying 70+% YES.
This is solely because of the internet because the Mainstream Media has done everything possible to thwart any investigation or debate and have covered up this crime as much as possible.
Now just imagine what would happen IF we actually had anything resembling a “Liberal Media”?
Number one Bush would never have stolen the election in 2000 and 9/11 would not have happened.
But besides that, any real Media would have investigated and researched this adnauseam.
Instead what we got was ZERO investigation and nothing but lies & omissions from the media.
It is interesting that none of the main stream media pieces are prepared to give a platform so that the so called “consiracy theorists” can properly explain their position. Instead we are treated to these so called journalists flawed interpretation. Do they realize they are working for the “Ministery of Truth”? They must have the same access to the information the rest of us have yet they seem to think only the so called “Official Version” has any merit. I allways thought that the first job of a real journalist is to be sceptic and have an enquiring mind. Not any more it seems. The only answer I can think of is that the idea of accepting the falsity of the “Official Version” is just to frightening for them. Even when the credibility of the administration has been blown to shreds in every other claim they have made and when even the Keen Commission now admit they were lied to by senior military witnesses.
Dear Bradbloggers,
As we commemorate the fifth anniversary of the neo-con Reichstag, I wanted to share with you this interesting and, imho, important read on the 9/11 Truth movement by the founder of http://www.SeptemberEleventh.org, Emanuel Sferios.
9/11 Five Years Later: What Have We Accomplished?
Five years ago–on my birthday–the shadow government of the United States murdered over 3,000 of its own citizens (and hundreds of others) in a “false flag” operation designed to galvanize public support behind a war for control of the world’s last remaining energy reserves. Many of us quickly saw through the “big lie” of 9/11 and began a movement to expose it, to reveal the truth, in the hopes that this would bring an end to the War on Terror, a war destined–if it continues–to turn nuclear.
And now, five years later, what have we accomplished?
In short, everything and nothing. We began this movement to convince the American public and the world that the official story of 9/11 was a lie, and that ruling factions within our own government were the real perpetrators. This we accomplished. Opinion polls conducted over the last two years show that the majority of Americans believe the US government was complicit. We bombarded every mainstream and alternative medium available with information, from Air America to internet blogs. We handed out leaflets in cities and towns across the country, held signs on street
corners, wrote letters to everyone we could think of. And you know what? It worked. Today it is rare that I talk to a person who doesn’t believe the US government was involved in the attacks in some way. Compared to just two years ago, when people would look at us like we were crazy for suggesting such a thing, this is an amazing success.
Or so it seems. For at the same time, not a single perpetrator of 9/11 has been prosecuted, and the War on Terror continues unabated, as does the endless stream of lies and propaganda designed to keep us fearful and compliant. Why this discrepancy? What accounts for the 9/11 Truth Movement’s seeming victory in shattering the American public’s blind acceptance of the official story, and the stark reality that nothing has changed politically? In other words, why, in the midst of total success, have we failed?
Please read the rest.
Peace everyone.
I’d like to add another point to this whole trend of people bashing those who want the WHOLE truth as being conspiracy theorists. More specifically the people who use the “Bush is too stupid” defense.
It wasn’t long ago that many of us were calling Bush and Cheney liars about why they went into IRaq. We said there were no WMDs and that the Bush admin is lying and deceiving the public in order to invade the middle east.
What was these same people’s responses? They pulled the “So which is it? Either Bush is stupid, as you say, or he is a genius capable of deceiving the entire country about Sadam having WMDs. You can’t have it both ways Liberals”.
That was their defense even back then. Eitehr Bush was a genius for lying, or he was an idiot and either way the Right felt it was an adequate and logical defense. They figured that in order for such a massive cover-up, such as lying about a country in order to invade it, would require way too much internal cooperation and someone was bound to come out with the truth.
Look what happened. It’s been about 3 years and only NOW is the truth slowly trickling out. Bush and his admin lied and they used a strict system of fear-mongering, smear campainging and swift punishment to anyone who even thought about leaking. Then they get their followers so blood-hungry that anyone who did come out was shut up with shouting.
Richard Clarke, in his book about 9/11 ,was very respectful of clinton and his dedication to anti terroism. Put ALL the blame for 9/11 on the Bush administration. It will be interesting to see if he stays on at ABC as a consultant or whatever his title is. This is desperation and Bushco is showing just how coniving and deceitful they are. I think this movie will work against disney and abc. Up here in Maine, Olympia Snowe, in her tv ad does not mention republican…INDEPENDENT. She is popular and still distancing herself from bushco.Votes with the administration waaay too often.Hope she is defeated.
Media folks who get near the truth are in danger. Look what happened to the guy in Chicago (arrested and beaten by cops and unidentified thugs); look what happened to Ray Lemme in Florida (killed in Georgia); look at how a working dog journalist can see that his/her housenote, family, and perhaps even life are in danger…
Sad. Depressing.
shw
Go get ’em, WP, but watch yer backside 😉
“A workingclass hero is something to be”…
Keep in mind the biggest thing of all: the so-called “experts” who back the government’s story “WILL NOT DEBATE ST911.ORG SCHOLARS AND SCIENTISTS”!!! I am on the side of the scholars and scientists explanation, not the government/politicians side. Since when do we belive politicians over scholars and scientists? I ask thee? Who believes anything ANY politicians says anymore???
Bush would be incompetent to be the President of the United States that you have in your mind.
That place does not exist.
He is not the President of anything.
He is playing his part.
He is doing precisely as his handlers instruct him.
Here in reality, things only appear to go wrong.
You’re using pre-9/11 thinking.
Since the Military Coup, reality has been stood on its head.
You will never make sense of anything using your pre-coup mind.
The media is just as controlled by the Government as was Pravda in the Soviet Union.
The illusion of incompetence is all by design.
Karl Rove is the ARCHITECT OF DISREALITY.
Here in reality:
KARL ROVE IS A TERRORIST
It’s time to see with new eyes.
.
Explain to patriotic Americans the story of the Dancing Israelis – and why they were set free without charges after celebrating the destruction of the twin towers and failing SEVEN polygraph tests.
Was this matter properly investigated?
Have you seen the video tape they shot of themselves celebrating while the towers fell behind them in the distance?
Have you heard the audio from that tape to learn what they may have said?
No?
Why Not?
http://www.sundayherald.com/37707
Was it these five Mossad Agents who set the charges in the towers in the days prior to 9/11? They had significant training with explosives. Were they celebrating their handywork?
Why don’t you know what/why they were celebrating – while the rest of us cried?
Why did Michael Chertoff take it upon himself to bury the story and quietly deport them?
Why did FOX pull this story off their web site?
http://www.informationclearingh...rticle7545.htm
And what’s up with this official DEA report:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.c...elispying.html
We are AMERICANS for chrissake!
Can you finish this sentence?
“I pledge allegiance…
According to ABC’s 20/20, when the van belonging to the cheering Israelis was stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers:
“We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem.”
The Israelis worked for a Weehawken moving company known as Urban Moving Systems. An American employee of Urban Moving Systems told the The Record of New Jersey that a majority of his co-workers were Israelis and they were joking about the attacks.
The employee, who declined to give his name said: “I was in tears. These guys were joking and that bothered me. These guys were like, “Now America knows what we go through.”
It was later confirmed that the five detained Israelis were in fact Mossad agents. They were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released. Some of the movers had been kept in solitary confinement for 40 days.
Several of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home.
Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, “The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event.”
How did they know there would be an event to document on 9/11?
It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots of the dancing Israeli Mossad agents
“Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It’s classified information.”
US official quoted in Carl Cameron’s Fox News report.
According to ABCNEWS sources, Israeli and U.S. government officials worked out a deal — and after 71 days, the five Israelis were taken out of jail, put on a plane, and deported back home.
The men all underwent at least two polygraph tests each, the lawyer added. He said one of the Israelis took the test seven times, a very unusual total according to several polygraph experts interviewed by the Forward. All failed their tests.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.c...eisraelis.html
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/Artstudents.htm
http://killtown.blogspot.com/20...is-on-911.html
I wrote a letter to a conservative friend of mine after having read Lisa Meyers piece on conspiracy theorists at the MSNBC website. My friend discounts all theories and it doesn’t matter if they are Bush’s explanations of things or Fintan Dunne’s (to pick a wild example). What I believe is that full truth has not been revealed and there has been little serious energy dedicated to revealing the facts which, by all rights, should speak for themselves without a theory at all. I have been prepared for some time to give everyone–including Bush–the benefit of some doubt. I don’t believe communications among people let alone agencies is perfect, and people have a lot of distractions from their responsibillities from time to time. People do get out on the wrong side of bed or have a hangover or a marital problem and can’t think straight or alertly all the time. I think everyone shares this commonsense understanding of how we live our lives. As odd as it sounds, it is the shared awareness of day-to-day life that makes democracy trustworthy—that is why you allow yourself to believe that if the facts were presented in an election, in a court of law, in a church or to your counselor, you would be understood and a useful judgement about what to do with those facts can be drawn.
So when it becomes plain that our government chooses to withold evidence, and to so narrowly define investigations in order to protect itself from perceived “vulnerabilities” and liabilities–that is when I cease granting benefit of doubt.
My mundane examples are these.
Much has been written about the possible causes for the collapse of the the Twin Towers. SOme have pointed out the significant omission of WTC7’s anomalous collapse. As a simple matter of civil responsibility, what did the National Fire Protection Association and other professional bodies determine about the causes of that collapse and on what evidence? This is not a Federal organization.It’s professional. They have a stake in investigating all serious building fires and reporting to the design and inspections community. It is also routine for them to do so. I am unaware of any investigation or finding by them as a simple civil and professional matter. Press reports say “there was no investigation by the 9-11 Commission into the collapse of WTC7”. Okay. So who did the follow-up if not the 9-11 Commission. If WTC7 were to have burned and fallen on its own any other day, NFPA and others would be all over it and doing a credible job. Where are they now?
If the NFPA did do an investigation, why doesn’t the press or the government make much of it and diffuse the proliferation of conspiracies instead of pot-shotting people in the media and making them look like clowns?
Another example:
The Pentagon damage is has been attributed to missles, small jets and a passenger airliner. Evidence on the ground and in the labs confuses someone like me. The release of surveillence tapes (Pentagon’s) was a sorry effort to be forthcoming when it is known other evidence exists ( hotel and gas station surveillence videos). So why aren’t they just released if only to show there is nothing on them ? What is the point of putting them off limits to review? This does not appear to be about conspiracy–it is about the attitude of government to have un-assailable authority. It is about who has power and who does not.
There is no national security interest involved unless of course you happen to think that the citizens do not feel secure in the knowledge that their own government is their own anymore.
I’ve been down the road of armchair forensics on the internet. I have downloaded “Loose Change” and watched about 6 times. I heard the gentleman professor in Utah talk about molten aluminum and free fall. It is very interesting. Very. But it isn’t the real point. In the final analysis, I have not been leveled with by my own government and it has taken extraordinary and undeserved liberties with its soverign power.
I want the truth. And I want it now.
And that is basically what I told my conservative friend, who seems quite content to write all government and political bad behavior off to the price of having democratic republic. He calls it “the overhead” of having America. He says we live it willingly and have for years, probably because we are dispositionally inclined to be left alone. We don’t want to worry over managing a society by government. Let the managers do it (the political class) and accept them for being the screw-ups all managers are.
I disagree with him, needless to say. It is clear that conservatism of this kind– the “let sleeping dogs lie (and lie and lie}” kind— might be serviceable if it were also benign. But it isn’t. The lack of response to Katrina proved that. There is no “compassionate” conservatism and that is lie Number One. To arrive at conservatism any other way (the most popular being thru market prnciples) yields the same attitude or worse.
So I say again: I want the truth, and the whole of it. I will judge it on its own merits.
Thank you Winter Patriot. These bastards who control the mass media are pouring the Bushit on real thick ONLY to convince those ALREADY CONVINCED this BUSH WAR ON TERRORISM version is the truth. King Bushit it set to spew more lies tonight. This weekend i saw the premiere of AMERICAN BLACKOUT http://www.gnn.tv/v00064 about Cynthia McKinney and her truth to power efforts. This is an excellent film which shows the disfranchisement of the black vote in the 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections as well as the way the Repubidems worked to eliminate her as state representative in GA. It also shows how she was crusified and misquoted out of context by the mass media when she asked questions what the Bushies and the were doing on 911 AT THAT TIME. My favorite part related to 911 aspect was a direct confrontation she had with Rumsfeld in Congress exposing him as a complete lying sack of sh*t. So they managed to get rid of her.
On the Popular Mechanics piece, there is a debunkment of Popular Mechanics’ “debunkment” mentioned above.
Hmm… Did my “pro-American” duty and safely got back on an AA flight back from vacation yesterday, even if it was a bit delayed by the weather. Unfortunately “Path to 9/11” crap shows that it’s truly and literally an “anti-American” film by showing that they are not above defaming American Airlines in this hit piece either.
GTASH:
Nice posting!
There is another video that was shot on 9/11 that your government hasn’t allowed you to see.
It is shot by Mossad Agents who are celebrating as the towers are stuck – and then as they collapse.
According to eyewitness accounts, these Mossad Agents actually danced on camera as the towers collapsed and made mocking gestures.
Their voices were recorded on the tape as well.
That is the most important video of 9/11. These Mossad Agents had expertise with explosives. Their behavior was not unlike that of any demolition crew celebrating its handywork. Did they plant explosives in the buildings?
Perhaps we would prove or disprove that possibility, if only OUR GOVERNMENT would make available OUR EVIDENCE to WE THE PEOPLE.
http://www.antichristconspiracy...t_11_Spies.htm
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/b...column100.html
http://www.forward.com/issues/2....15/news2.html
http://www.thejewishweek.com/ne...hp3?artid=5303
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/forget.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/...ysteries3.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.c...eisraelis.html
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j062402.html.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/sears.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/...el/spies7.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/...mpa050302.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/...Israelis5.html
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0206/S00133.htm
http://www.911-strike.com/dea-il-spy.htm
http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/has...=162902&c
http://atlanta.creativeloafing....shwrapper.html
http://www.newsmax.com/archives...6/110443.shtml
http://www.informationclearingh...rticle5133.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/a...node=&con
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/has...=77744&co
http://www.antiwar.com/rep/lemonde1.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/worl...pe/2294487.stm
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j072602.html
http://www.crimelynx.com/dozens.html
http://www.informationclearingh...rticle7545.htm
http://www.whatreallyhappened.c...elispying.html
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/Artstudents.htm
http://killtown.blogspot.com/20...is-on-911.html
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7127
http://www.informationclearingh...ticle11385.htm
http://www.timesherald.com/site...380&rfi=6
http://www.selvesandothers.org/..._article=13772
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1744960,00.html?gusrc=rss
LINKS via Google:
1. Athens Banner-Herald December 22, 2001. Google users enter these words: university chicago poll americans cried
2. Yediot America (Israeli Newspaper), November 2, 2001. Google users enter: yediot america urban moving
3. Jewish Week. November 2, 2001. Stewart Ain.
Google users enter: urban moving Israelis smiling took pictures on 9-11
4. ABC News20/20. ABCNews.com, June 21,2001.Google users enter : white van Israeli spies
5. Bergen Record (New Jersey). September 12, 2001. Paolo Lima. Google users enter: Bergen Lima five israelis
6. Eye For an Eye, By John Sack. Google users enter: john sack eye for eye
7.The Zionist Connection. By Alfred Lilienthal Google users enter: alfred lilienthal zionist
8.Fateful Triangle. By Noam Chomsky Google users enter: chomsky fateful triangle
9. Open Secrets. By Israel Shahak Google users enter: israel shahack open secrets
10.The Hidden Tyranny. By Benjamin Freedman. Google users enter: benjamin freedman
11. By Way of Deception. By Victor Ostovsky. Google users enter: victor ostovsky
12. Neturei Karta. Jews United Against Zionism. Google users enter: neturei karta jews against Zionism
13. Jewish Virtual Library of the American-Israeli co-operative enterprise. Google users enter: weizmann balfour zionist
14. Benjamin Freedman’s 1955 speech. Google users enter: Benjamin Freedman speaks and also Benjamin Freedman
15. Square One: A Memoir. By Arnold Forster. Google users enter: Arnold Forster Square One….or see amazon.com
16. Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia. refer to “Balfour Declaration”. Google users enter: Balfour Zionism
17. Daily Express. (England) Judea Declares War on Germany. March 24, 1933
Google users enter: Judea Declares War on Germany
18. Vladimir Jabotinsky. Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934. Google users enter: vladimir jabotinsky and also jabotinsky mascha rjetsch
19. Beaverbrook papers. House of Lords Records Service. (England). Google users enter: beaverbrook jews position press
20. Charles Lindbergh’s Speech in Iowa. September 11, 1941. Google users enter: Lindbergh Des Moines speech
21. Day of Deceit. By Robert Stinnett. Google users enter: day of deceit stinnett
22. From Adolf Hitler’s last Will and Political Testament. Google users enter: Hitler my political testament
23. Britain’s Small Wars. Google users enter: dressed as Arabs king david and also king david Hotel bombing
24. Deir Yassin Remembered. Google users enter: deir Yassin remembered and also deir yassin
25. The Khazaria Information Center. Google users enter: khazars
26. Victor Ostrovsky. By Way of Deception. Google users enter: mossad motto
27.The Gun and the Olive Branch. By David Hirst. Google users enter: lavon affair
28. Assault on Liberty. By James M Ennes Jr. Google users enter: ennes uss liberty
29. Ostrovsky. How How Mossad got America to bomb Libya and fight Iraq. Google users enter: ostrovsky how mossad got america
30. Ostrovsky. The Contrasting Media Treatment of Israeli and Islamic Death Threats. Google users enter: Ostrovsky death threats
31. The Washington Times. Army Study Suggests U.S. Force of 20,000. By Rowan Scarborough. September 10, 2001. Google users enter: army study suggests sams rowan scarborough
32. ibid
33. The International Jew. By Henry Ford. Google users enter: ford international jew
34. Jewish Frontier. Lindbergh and the Jews. By Hal Derner. Google users enter: lindbergh jews press
35. They Dare to Speak Out. By Paul Findley. Google users enter: admiral moorer boggles mind
36. Senator William Fulbright on ABC’s Face the Nation. Google users enter: fulbright israel controls senate
37. Patrick Buchanan on the Mclaughlin Group. Google users enter: buchanan israeli occupied territory
38. Rev. Billy Graham and Richard Nixon. CNN Google users enter: graham jewish media stranglehold
39. Who Rules America? By Dr. William Pierce. Google users enter: jewish media control
40. The Israel Lobby. By Michael Massing.The Nation Magaazine. Google users enter: massing israel lobby
41.Saudis Lash Out at ‘Zionist’ U.S. Critics By Marc Perelman. Jewish Forward. Google users enter: forward zionist defense policy board
42.Ari Shavit. Ha’aretz Israel, reprinted in New York Times. May 27 1996. Google users enter: sobran shavit in our hands
43. Bubba: I’d fight and Die for Israel. New York Post. .By Andy Geler. August 2, 2002. Google users enter: clinton grab a rifle fight die
Here is my e-mail I sent to ABC.
How much did the Republican party pay you for your lie docubullshit. I will boycott ABC and Disney for the rest of my life. If I see anything being sold on ABC I will go out of my way not to buy it. This family will never again visit any of Disney’s boring parks. I threw away all Disney movies let the dog rip Mickey Mouse apart and kicked Bugs Bunny to the curb. I put Donald Duck in a concert out house where everyone took a turn pissing on it. Screw you ABC. You lie.
I’ve found that it’s absolutely futile to try and convince anyone about 9-11 events and alternate explanations. A lot of people just don’t have a mental setting for that. It’s not that they can’t be skeptical, they are very skeptical of ME. But they have an unquestioning belief in major media and government. “It MUST be true, it’s on TV.” (Wag the Dog)
Comment 16 addition: Talking to Anastacia King who produced AMERICAN BLACKOUT, she couldn’t get any distribution or get it played anywhere except this one sponsored event i attended because the forces which control the media ALL TURNED HER DOWN. The truth is a powerful thing and the NEO-CONS in control do not want it to come out so word of mouth is the only way to find out about this movie. http://www.gnn.tv/v00064
Check out the trailer bradbloggers and purchase the DVD!!!
It is an excellent documentary film scored with good music that really keeps the viewer riveted as the dark truth unfolds.
GBD
Did anyone watch the one on CBS last night with DeNiro?
The video was in close and very disturbing
All and all a good viewpoint
Link
I truly hope Clinton does sue Disney and ABC for defamation of character. Keep it front and center!!! This is not something that should be swept under the rug in a few days. Sue, Sue, Sue!!! I have 4 family members that were going to WDW today, instead they gladly went to local attractions!
#9 don’t forget about what happened to hunter S thompson – Very (with a capital V) suspicious suicide…
American Blackout website about the Cynthia McKinney movie now up! http://www.americanblackout.com
Not only did I attend a “Polytechnic Institute” but also worked for years in structural steel quality assurance. Unlike the average structural design engineer, we studied specific steel collapses and gained insight into collapse modes and mechanisms, far exceeding the engineering knowledge required to design steel structures.
When the towers collapsed, I was shocked – weren’t they made of steel? I asked the TV. When some narrating announcer stated that there must have been tons of explosives on site to cause such a collapse, I felt sane again – although it raised plenty of other questions, it at least answered the question of what caused the steel connections to crumble like they were made out of saltine crackers.
What people need to understand is that steel is a very ductile material. It is both very strong and very flexible. Steel failures tend to have an elastic / plastic component that (from examining all available photos and videos) appears to be entirely absent from the WTC failures.
To see the towers crumble made me very suspicious. I know a lot of other “steel guys” who feel the same way. Rather than studying the evidence and conducting a transparent investigation that might address these concerns, the approach taken by the administration made me that much more suspicious.
When I hear the argument “no licensed structural engineer agrees with the conspiracy theorists” I get more than a little irritated, because I have firsthand knowledge that the claim is false. I know I’m not the only one.
Licensed Structural Engineer said on 9/11/2006 @ 9:53 am PT…
Yeah, and the towers at LEAST should have collapsed unevenly, like tipping over…not straight down like that
Watch that CBS video, they were shooting right in the lobby of tower one when tower two went down
This is a link on http://www.st911.org about Christopher Bollyn’s TASER attack being ordered by Homeland Security. Very interesting!!!
http://www.unobserver.com/layou...589&blz=2
Hmmm… I wonder if we are getting to close
“CIA counterterrorism officers have signed up in growing numbers for a government-reimbursed, private insurance plan that would pay their civil judgments and legal expenses if they are sued or charged with criminal wrongdoing”
AND
“The new enrollments reflect heightened anxiety at the CIA that officers may be vulnerable to accusations they were involved in abuse, torture, human rights violations and other misconduct, including wrongdoing related to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.”
Link
Well, they say that the winners write history, and these folks surely believe that they have won. After 2000, 2002, and 2004 (with a few other good thefts in 2005) it is hard to argue.
We shall either defeat them on November 7 or fight them on November 8 or our children’s children will be the next generation to see freedom as we knew it.
The Mass Media is a component tool of the Corporate State and serves the goals of that state — to expect ANYTHING less is silly.
As an ex employee of Disney, I am saddened that the company I worked for has become such a tool of the Corporate State, rather than the “entertainment” company it once was. From GOOD MORNING, VIETNAM to MORNING IN GOD & BUSH’S AMERICA!
I felt that quake yesterday….Does anyone know if the oil companies are sounding out in the gulf ?
seems wherever they are testing like that, the earthquakes happen
One conclusion I have come to, is that perhaps Bush was not involved but everyone else around him was.
Richard Clarke made mention on Bill Maher’s show last year that this administration is too incompetent to pull off 9/11. I respect Mr. Clarke more than anyone else.
But as in any crime investigators look to see who benefited the most. The list is very long, Silverstein who owned the building, the airlines needed bailout money and were at the trough before the buildings cooled, Bush, Cheney, Wolfawitz, Rumsfeldt, Marvin Bush on the security board. These people had motive and ability.
The comment that no one could keep everyone involved quiet, ummm not quite. The Manhattan project, no one spoke out. Kennedy assasination, no one talked.
There are lots of reasons to be quiet, fear is big, shame is another, misplaced patriotism.
We may never know for certain who or what was involved. But doesn’t the staunchest Bush supporter wonder why he would only talk to the 9/11 commission WITH Cheney and why they REFUSED to speak under oath?
How about Rice again refusing to speak under oath.
I agree, if there is nothing to hide, show the videos, let the information out, where are the black boxes, and why are no hijackers listed on the flight manifest of flight 93? That really puzzels me. And last but not least, Oklahoma was a terriost act but no one was paid off there, but yet hush money was paid for 9/11 ? Please don’t tell me it was compassion money not from this corrupt, greedy bastards.
More like make it go away money. Meaning the questions.
Looks like American Airlines is not at all happy with ABC.
American Airlines Threatens To Sue ABC
Can’t wait to see how this one shakes out.
(Of course they’ll probably get away with it, pointing to the disclaimer as their excuse)
Speaking of pathetic attempts to discredit those asking questions about 9/11, here are a couple whoppers from Counterpunch,
http://www.counterpunch.org/coc...n09092006.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/frank09112006.html
I just don’t get these guys – anyone should be able to see through this intellectual bullying.
FYI: A guy called into KPFK and this afternoon and announced there will be a 1 hour film followed by a discussion of Dr. Steven Jones’ paper on the collapse of the three buildings.
When: 8pm, Mon. 9/11
Where: 19820 Beach Blvd. (Corner of Beach and Adams in the Newland Barn Bldg.) Huntington Beach, Ca.
Woo Hoo! ABC wrote back to me regarding my petition letter!
“As you can imagine, we receive thousands of messages a day from our viewers and while we appreciate you taking the time to provide feedback regarding our programming, we are not able to respond to each one directly.
We encourage you to continue to communicate with us!
ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS:
— Many of your show-specific questions can be answered on the ABC.com website:
Go to ABC.com
Go to the top and click on “Shows”
Go down the list and click on the name of the show you are seeking information on
— Answers to other questions such as show addresses, internships, etc. can be found in our “Questions & Answers” section:
Go to ABC.com
Go to the bottom of the screen and click on “FAQ”
Again, thank you for contacting ABC. ”
Woo Hoo Hoo!
KKKarl Rove has $45 million in his piggy-bank to spend on various media/propaganda misinformation efforts before midterm elections in November.
Here is a taste of Rove-ian neocon fascist video to be released before election 2006 by right-wing think tanks. Brainwash the electors with propaganda just before they vote. (window player)
“Center for Security Policy” – what is this,.. a PR,.. chamber of commerce group – for the consortium of military/industrial fascist good old boy monopoly games club ?
Same as above but in YouTube,..
YouTube Link
If it makes your connection easier.
BB-2 (C) # 36
(welcome back from the wilderness)
======================
If you wanted to take that no answer e-mail response from ABC TV a little higher up the ladder,..
you might try this,..
Ms. Zenia Mucha
Executive Vice President
of Corporate Communications
e-mail: zenia.mucha@disney.com
phone: 818-560-5300
=================
This witch is like a carbon copy of KKKarl Rove,..
in the right mood it could be kind of fun having a little chat with this fascist pig/cow.
Background: Zenia Mucha
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/9/10/22035/2310
http://www.dailykos.com/storyon.../10/133452/503
I posted this link on another thread and then saw this one talking about Popular Mechanics.
The left “gatekeeper” Amy Goodman finally stepped away and allowed the writer/director and the film researcher of “Loose Change” to debate some dude from Popular Mechanics. They aren’t very polite to the dude, but after all, people have died, haven’t they.
This is funny because the Loose Change guy can’t hold his distain for the Popular Mechanics shills. I can’t say I blame him!
LISTEN HERE!
Is anyone else noticing all the “debunking” of questions on 9/11 coming out? Last week’s Time article, then some spokesperson last night on Anderson Cooper. Hmmmm maybe the kooks, their word not mine, who are questioning the Bush Cartel are making enough noise to attrack the attack dogs. Amazing how questioning become conspiracy nuts.
I am not the most knowledgable person but between researching the history of these corrupt bastards, it is just too much coincidence. Again those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.
Old Turk #39
Thanks! 😉
Texas Lady #41
Like I said somewhere around here – 9/11 is Bush’s last stand. It is the only thing he has left to prop him up. Everything else has been shown to be, and has been accepted by the vast majority of the people, as an utter failure.
He still has some sway with a shrinking bunch of people when he raises the fear factor of 9/11.
Therefore he must battle hard against anything proving him a failure on 9/11.
They have played their fear card so long and so well, along with their mantra that a lie repeated enough times becomes the truth**, that they think they can still win with that hand.
But we are beginning to hold all the Aces!
** (Or as one of our favorite past trolls used to say “A lie is only a lie if you think it’s a lie”)
texaslady #41
You’re not imagining things. They are definitely on the defensive now. This year 9-11 was better politically for us then them. That C-SPAN airing of the Alex Jones symposium last month has them wetting their jeans.
The great thing is that, in trying to defend their weak arguments, in favor of not having more serious hearings, they come across as NUTCASES!
Time to start reframing the argument. Anyone who tries to tell you that it is wrong to question the “offical theory” which more and more people are coming to realize is a load of crap… then label that disinformation spewing shill:
MediaWhore Nutbag
The truth is out there. Just need to dethrone these high and might gaterkeepers who don’t want people to ask questions.