Guest blogged by Ernest A. Canning
Lanny Davis is an exceptionally talented lawyer, so much so that his close friend, the infamous Watergate mastermind, G. Gordon Liddy, reportedly said that Davis “can defend the indefensible.â€
After watching Davis’s skillful, yet deceptive, Aug. 7, 2009, performance on Democracy Now (video below), I had to admit that this is one of the few Liddy assessments with which I can concur.
It was supposed to be a debate between Davis, who represents a group of Honduran business elites formally operating as the Latin American Business Council of Honduras (CEAL), and Greg Grandin, professor of Latin American history at New York University, pertaining to recent events in which, as reported by The New York Times, “Honduran President Manuel Zelaya was ousted in a military coup after betraying his own kind: a small clique of families that dominates the economy.” Zelaya imposed “a 60 percent increase in the minimum wage” in a nation where, per a Business Week article, quoted by Grandin, “two-thirds of its 7.8 million citizens live below the poverty line…The country has one of Latin America’s most unequal distributions of wealth.”
A well-prepared Davis, seeking to defend the indefensible, had no intention of permitting real debate. His strategy was to dominate the discussion and denigrate any comments that did not square with his distortions as “ideological rants.” His dissembling would later be exposed in a fact-check article authored by Grandin, who had trouble getting a word in edgewise during the “debate.”
While Davis’s slick performance, which began with an unwarranted assault on Amy Goodman’s impartiality as a moderator, should be seen, the core issue to be addressed here pertains to the fact that Davis, who served as Special Council to President Bill Clinton, actively supported Sen. Joseph Lieberman’s (I-CT) campaign against Ned Lamont and the Presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton, describes himself as a “liberal.”
Perhaps. But if so, that only makes ever clearer the difference between Davis’s brand of “liberalism” and true progressive values…
King on a Progressive ‘Revolution of Values’
Drawing a stark contrast between Davi’s brand of “liberalism” and true “progressivsm,” one might start with an examination of the embodiment of progressive values contained in Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s April 1, 1967, “Beyond Vietnam” speech…
I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin…the shift from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered….
A true revolution of values will soon look uneasily on the glaring contrast between poverty and wealth. With righteous indignation, it will look across the seas and see individual capitalists of the West investing huge sums of money in Asia, Africa, and South America, only to take the profits out with no concern for the social betterment of the countries, and say, ‘This is not just.’ It will look to our alliance with the landed gentry of South America and say, ‘This is not just.’ The Western arrogance of feeling that it has everything to teach others and nothing to learn from them is not just.
Note that Dr. King’s “revolution of values” is class-based. It rejects the core of the corporate global project embodied in so-called “free-trade” — NAFTA and the WTO — which creates extreme inequality at home and abroad while elevating the “extreme materialism” of capitalist-based consumerism above a community-based promotion of the general welfare. It is a dichotomy one can find in the current health care debate which pits the obscene wealth of a few insurance company CEOs and their Wall Street investors against the health and very lives of our citizens.
Anti-Progressive “Liberals”
In Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, John Perkins explodes the myth of America as a benevolent world savior, exposing what he describes as the “corporatocracy” and its Mafia-like tactics.
Perkins described EHMs as “an elite group of men and women who utilize international financial organizations to foment conditions that make other nations subservient to the corporatocracy.â€
Using vastly inflated economic forecasts, the EHM’s role is to convince corruptible leaders in developing nations to accept loans for massive construction projects, such as airports, hydroelectric dams, ports, or industrial parks — all of which would benefit only a small, wealthy local elite.
Most of the monies from these loans, which are funneled through such agencies as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, never make their way to the debtor nation. Instead they are simply transferred to the accounts of major construction firms such as Bechtel, Halliburton, and its former subsidiary, KBR.
Perkins, a former EHM, tells us:
Where dissembling economists serve as Empire’s “Economic Hit-Men,” the careers of self-described “liberals,” like Davis, suggest the existence of an attorney/lobbyist class who act as little more than Empire’s bought-and-paid-for consigliares.
The Lanny Davis story is the story of an attorney/lobbyist shilling for corporate wealth and power.
In 1975 Davis was hired as an associate at Patton Boggs, considered the “go-to” law firm in “areas of corporate transactions/ mergers & acquisitions, securities, international, intellectual property, [and] litigation.”
Per wikipedia:
…One former and four current Patton Boggs attorneys were subpoenaed by a federal grand jury in San Diego…Prosecutors allege company founder Michael Ellis lied about Metabolife’s safety record…to the [FDA]…In mid 2002, Patton Boggs lobbyist Lanny Davis wrote a senator whose subcommittee was investigating Metabolife that the company had received only 78 ‘unproven, anecdotal allegations’ of strokes, heart attacks, seizures and deaths.” Company documents released just one week later revealed that the number of health complaints actually numbered in the thousands.
Glenn Greenwald observes that where Davis describes himself as a “pro-labor liberal,” he accepted retention “by corporations [seeking] to derail the labor-backed Employee Free Choice Act…”
Foreign Entanglements
Thanks to Brad Friedman’s coverage, readers have now had access to the sworn testimony of FBI whistle blower Sibel Edmonds.
Edmonds testified that the FBI targeted the covert activities of “the Turkish lobby.” Turkish lobby activities included “trying to obtain…highly classified U.S. intelligence information, weapons technology information, classified congressional records…” Edmonds revealed how the Turkish lobby recruited “key U.S. individuals with access to highly sensitive information.” Her account reveals a sordid tale of corruption, bribery and blackmail directed at key officials and members of Congress, including an extortion scheme designed to ensnare a married, bi-sexual Congresswoman. Edmonds testimony raises the question as to whether some of the individuals involved, including current and former members of Congress, should be investigated; possibly prosecuted for treason.
While Edmonds’ testimony is alarming, what I found more troubling was that most of Edmonds’ knowledge was acquired during a relatively brief stint as a Turkish (and to a lesser extent, Farsi) translator (9/15/01 – 4/02). Her work exposed her largely to just one small aspect of targetted FBI investigations — the loosely described Turkish lobby consisting of a number of organizations and individuals including members of the Turkish diplomatic community.
Given that the Turkish lobby is but one of many foreign lobbies operating inside the U.S., it is quite plausible that Edmonds merely exposed the tip of an iceberg.
Davis, whom Glenn Greenwald asserts “is unmoored from any discernible political beliefs other than: ‘I agree with whoever pays me,'” has served as the senior adviser for a 501(c)(3) organization, The Israeli Project, which has been criticized as “an advocate for hardline propaganda, pro-occupation Israeli government viewpoints and does not promote security, freedom, or peace for Palestinian people.”
Per Greenwald,
And now we find Davis serving the interests of the Honduran oligarchy, whom, during the Democracy Now debate, Davis compared to “a Chamber of Commerce.”
It is a group, led by Roberto Micheletti, who, in the wake of the military take-over, appointed “Nelson Willy MejÃa, a former member of the Honduran death squad Intelligence Battalion 3-16 and School of the Americas graduate and instructor as Director-General of Immigration.” That infamous Battalian 3-16 was established, equipped, and trained by the CIA. Although its brutal tactics were well known, “reporting on human rights atrocities” committed by Battalion 3-16 was “conspicuously absent from [then US Ambassador John Negroponte’s] cable traffic,” according to the National Security Archive.
The Honduran constitution, which Davis cites as gospel, was adopted in 1982 in the midst of this death squad activity. Per the U.S. State Department’s 1992 Human Rights report, “although basic human rights are protected in the constitution, in practice the government has been unable to assure that many violations are fully investigated, or that most of the perpetrators, either military or civilian, are brought to justice.”
Grandin’s fact-check piece documents Davis’s duplicitous effort to suggest that legal justification for the Honduran coup could be found in a Honduran Supreme Court decision and Article 239 of the Honduran constitution.
Grassroots International reports:
We do not know, at this point, whether Davis has had direct access to Secretary of State Clinton. What is clear is that, whereas the United Nations and the Organization of American States have soundly condemned the Honduran coup, Secretary Clinton “has still not even determined that a military coup has taken place” even though staff has urged her to do so. Such a formal determination “would force the Obama administration to cut off as much as $150 million in US funding to Honduras.”
The Global Class War
The real problem is not simply Davis’s willingness to sell his soul to the highest bidder. It is not just that this well-paid foreign lobbyist has access to the powerful, e.g., his direct access as President Clinton’s special counsel which raises the specter that Davis influenced the U.S. relationship with Pakistan in a manner that may have been inconsistent with the interests of ordinary American and Pakistani citizens.
The real problem is that Davis’s “liberal” facade hides a basic truth unmasked by Jeff Faux in The Global Class War.
Faux’s central thesis is that, commencing with NAFTA, globalization facilitated a morphing of nation-based elites “into a global ruling class,” whose class-based loyalties supersede national loyalties. Faux’s insightful analysis of the bi-partisan betrayal that occurred when President Clinton rammed NAFTA through on the fast-track is quite instructive for progressives, now scratching their heads, wondering how the candidate who promised “change we can believe in” surrounded himself with Goldman Sachs-connected, Wall Street tycoons.
Against the lofty rhetoric, we have experienced the stark reality of our current President pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into the $62 trillion sink hole created by the unregulated, credit default swaps Wall Street casino in order to bail out the very people who brought the U.S. economy to the brink of an economic abyss — all against the well-published, but thoroughly ignored, advice of progressive economists, like Paul Krugman.
A classic case, emblematic of the dichotomy between “liberals” and “progressives,” entails UBS, the Swiss bank which recently agreed to pay 780 million in penalties to settle allegations that it helped hide assets of some 4,500 wealthy Americans to assist them in tax evasion. As the man who blew the whistle on UBS was being handed a 40 month sentence, Obama was in Martha’s Vineyard, playing golf with UBS CEO Robert Wolf, whom Obama had, in February, appointed to the White House’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board.
The classic example for understanding President Clinton’s betrayal of American labor through NAFTA can be found in one of the principal beneficiaries of “free-trade” — Wal-Mart. Hillary Clinton served on Wal-Mart’s board of directors for six years!
Prior to 1991, Wal-Mart did not operate a single store outside the continental U.S. By 2005, “Wal-Mart had $312.4 billion in sales, more than 6,200 facilities around the world, including 3,800 stores in the United States and 3,800 international units, and [employed] more than 1.6 million associates worldwide…Approximately 138 million customers visited Wal-Mart stores each week all over the world.”
This produced obscene wealth for the Walton family, whose five most prominent members “have consistently been in the top ten of the Forbes 400,” each with a net worth of approximately $17.6 billion.
As revealed by Jim Hightower in Thieves in High Places, this enormous wealth at the top is punctuated by the poverty level wages of Wal-Mart’s own employees, the more fortunate of whom receive $15,000/year for full time work. But for seventy percent of the Wal-Mart workforce, the company defines “full-time†as 28 hours per week — $11,000 per year. Not satisfied, the Scrooges at Wal-Mart devised an “off-the-clock†scheme in which employees were instructed to clock out; then assigned extra tasks for which they receive no compensation, a practice which, according to Hightower, netted Wal-Mart $30 million per year in Texas alone.
Abroad, Wal-Mart aligned itself with sweatshop labor and became the world’s largest purchaser of goods made in China.
Wal-Mart, Hightower concludes, “is now the world’s most powerful private force for lowering labor standards and stifling the middle-class aspirations of workers everywhere.â€
So we look at the web site for the Honduran business organization, CEAL, which Davis represents, and what do we find? An organization whose stated goal is to strengthen “free market ideals and the regional integration processes, such as: the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)” — the same NAFTA which outsourced our manufacturing base, destroyed middle-class wages and gave us Wal-Mart in return.
Everyone laughed when Ross Perot warned us of “the giant sucking sound of jobs headed South.” No one’s laughing any more.
The following video is from the Aug. 7, 2009 Democracy Now! debate on the ouster of Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, between attorney Lanny Davis representing the Latin American Business Council of Honduras (CEAL) and Greg Grandin, Latin American history professor at New York University…
UPDATE 08/31/09: In an op-ed, “Honduras’ coup must not stand,” which appeared in today’s Los Angeles Times, Robert White and Glenn Hurowitz, reference Lanny Davis’s lobbying in the same paragraph as Sen. Jim Demint’s (R-SC) “shameless” defense of “the coup on the Senate floor.” They point to a letter sent by State Department spokesman Richard Verma to Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN), which is worse than mere silence:
“Engagement,” one might add was the policy the Reagan administration applied to apartheid South Africa at a time when the ANC, as well as the world community of nations, was calling for a boycott.
White & Hurowitz go on to warn:
The place where White & Hurowitz fall short can be found in their assumption that this message — “overthrow democracy with impunity” — was unintended. Both conservatives, like Lugar and DeMint, and so-called “liberals,” like Hillary Clinton and Davis, support sham democracies that serve the interests of the corporate global project. Democracy is inconvenient when the electorate make what they perceive as the “wrong” democratic choice, e.g., Gaza, Venezuela. They oppose military coups only where those coups serve to upset the interests of the global ruling class.
UPDATE 09/04/09: State Department spokesperson Philip Crowley said:
As noted by Democracy Now’s Juan Gonzales, Crowley stopped short of labeling it a “military coup,” which, under the U.S. Foreign Operations Act, would have mandated an immediate cut off of most aid.
Even as the U.S. cut $30 million, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), which is principally under U.S. control, gave $160 million in assistance to the Honduran regime.
But Greg Grandin, who described the State Department announcement as a “step in the right direction,” does not believe the IMF assistance will sustain the Honduran coup regime.
===
Ernest A. Canning has been an active member of the California state bar since 1977. Mr. Canning has received both undergraduate and graduate degrees in political science as well as a juris doctor. He is also a Vietnam vet (4th Infantry, Central Highlands 1968).
I think (hope) it was obvious to most people what Mr Davis(creep)was doing. Amy made it pretty clear who was paying him. Well done Amy Goodman and Greg Grandin.
This has indisputably been a US-backed coup. Eva Golinger calls it Obama’s First Coup. I think the only reason more have not been this blunt is in the futile hope that Obama can be shamed into changing his mind, changing course. The man had the audacity to call his critics on this “hypocrites”. I kid you not. So it is obvious he cannot be so gently nudged and get any results.
To begin with, it isn’t his course, but that of those he serves. It looks more and more as though he proudly serves them. Daily grows dimmer the prayer that this complete capitulation, this abdication of his oath, will turn into something more closely resembling morality.
Some guy was on DN! debating Finkelstein, and the guy (I can’t remember his name) spent most of his time saying how impartial Amy Goodman was. That’s why you can’t “debate” these people: they blurt you out, they say lies that have to be fact-checked later…they just want a forum to spout lies, one way. That’s why I hate when Bill Maher has a rightwing creep on, they blurt everyone out. There’s never any “debate” with these people, never! And Amy backs down, when someone says she’s impartial. Not that she ISN’T impartial, but I wouldn’t BLAME her for being impartial, for “balance”: every other corporate media channel that has these creeps on is biased FOR them!
These guys want it one of two ways: where they are unchallenged and just get to spout lies with no one calling them on it, or blurting people out and lying where you have to fact-check them later. Never any other way. That’s why I’m against even having people like this on shows like DN! We need shows WITHOUT these liars!
I remember Michael Steele was on Bill Maher, before he was RNC chairman, and he kept blurting everyone out, even though he was outnumbered 4 to 1. It’s sickening. That’s what the Town Hallers do: blurt everyone out. There’s no debate with them.
And when they are on a show like DN!, they always lead off with “working the refs”, whenever there’s a possibility of a fair debate, they accuse the host of being impartial at the beginning and throughout. I’ve seen it many times. The guy I can’t remember his name, he was on DN! with Finkelstein, and he said he was bushwhacked, etc…and wasn’t even answering any questions. That’s what they do, when they’re on legit, non-corporate owned shows.
Here, at 2:50, start off by “working the refs”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH_bcbJ2K_M
Norman Finkelstein vs Martin Indyk over Gaza and the “Peace Process”
Same old shit, like it’s from a playbook. It IS from a playbook!!! Then throughout, Indyk keeps saying that, “it’s not fair!”. Yeah, it’s not fair, that they don’t get to talk one-way with no fair debate! That’s not fair!!! Because they get their way all the time!!!
There’s some kind of script, where these guys do that when they go on DN! It’s not a coincidence that they all do that. It’s the plan by them, when they go on DN!
They should say: “I’m going to start off by accusing you of not being fair, because I’m not going to get my total way like I do on every corporate news program. WAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!”
The term “working the refs” is a sports term: Bill Parcells would complain and complain all game, that the refs weren’t fair…and then he’d get a close call at the end of the game, because he “worked the refs” the whole game, accusing them of not being fair, and the refs, no matter how impartial they are, favor the person complaining they’re not fair, to “show them” they’re fair…and doing that is actually NOT fair. Then Parcells gets every close call, even bad calls that should’ve gone against him. If he doesn’t, he can say: “See? I’ve been saying they’re not fair!” It’s human nature for even an impartial ref to cave in.
Well, it’s CLEAR Lanny is the person telling the truth, and Amy and her professor guest are playing lies, misquotes, half truths, and slanderous games – in the dire and ignorant HOPE or WISH that somehow Honduras has the exact same constitution as the USofA.
Sorry Amy and way too often WRONG professor – telling LIES and spewing ideas that Honduras functions the way the USA does is not only infantile, silly, stupid, and foolish, it’s DECEPTIVE and both of you two, Amy and the professor, SHOULD KNOW BETTER BUT APPARENBTLY DO NOT.
Too bad Lanny had the facts, huh, it would be so much easier to scream and whine as if US law applies for Honduras.
You had one good point Amy “expatriation” by the army is apparently AGAINST their constitution – one good point.
I didn’t hear any good point from the professor, and NEITHER of you could refute the claim that what the ousted leader did was illegal – in fact neither of you even TRIED – indicating the crem de la crem of criminal conduct was something YOU BOTH KNEW TO BE ABSOLUTELY TRUE IN YOUR OWN MINDS!
Nice job blowing it.
As for those living Amy’s headgames, hate Lanny all you want, hate the evil business people, hate all the endless piled up wrongs – hate hate hate hate – fine and dandy, but if you’re going to support something in opposition, AT LEAST HAVE AN ARGUMENT READY THAT ISN’T A PILE OF LIES!
“Lanny was well prepared”….
Yeah, he TOLD THE TRUTH.
Fucking Lanny is the new LIBERAL, but us old liberals will start Lanny’s title with either zio or neo liberal. We all know the history of the US’s plantation politics in Central America which Lanny won’t even acknowledge.
It appears that the entire Government of Honduras has been hollowed out by the big bananas and mafioso.
Just like here.
Floridiot…
“The U.S.’s plantation politics in Central America”
Outstanding description…
Post #9 by SiliconDoc is neither persuasive nor meaningful.
Not a single piece of evidence, let alone a link, is provided to back up the claim that Lanny Davis was “telling the truth” or that either Amy Goodman or Prof. Grandin were “playing lies, misquotes, and slanderous games.”
SiliconDoc’s post reveals that he/she did not bother to read Prof. Grandin’s “fact-check” article, even though I provided a link in the body of this article; that he/she has no knowledge of the content of the Honduran Constitution; is unaware of the fact that the provision of the Constitution, which Davis claimed the Honduran Supreme Court relied upon, was not even mentioned in the referenced Supreme Court decision.
Either SiliconDoc knows better and is a bald-faced liar, or, SiliconDoc typifies the blind faith of the true believer who really doesn’t require any fact-based reality to support his/her beliefs. Davis, in his/her mind said what SiliconDoc wanted to hear. Therefore, it must be true. Anyone who says otherwise, must be a liar.
Thank you Sara. You do realize, however, that you can personally submit a link to any article that appears on a blog to other sites. You don’t have to wait for Brad or one of the guest bloggers to do so.
Floridiot wrote in comment #11:
It appears that the entire Government of Honduras has been hollowed out by the big bananas and mafioso.
Just like here.
______________
Precisely! That’s why I included NAFTA & Wal-Mart in this piece. With globalization, imperialism has come home to roost, as the global class war has taken great strides to reduce the American working class, with its former middle-class wages, to the same level of poverty one can find in Third World nations.
To the point re John Perkins and EHMen, Governor Richardson (NM) was executive director of Kissinger McClarty Associates when he first ran in 2002. His father was head of City Bank in the 60’s, and had an exclusive arrangement with Mexico to operate the sole foreign owned bank there. He developed the Latin American debt system that Perkin’s so beautifully dissects in his two books. He then married Richardson’s mother who is from the top 1% of Mexican wealth.Richardson worked for Kissinger in the Nixon Whitehouse,later as House Co whip pushed NAFTA for Clinton, was rewarded with the DOE cabinet post where he opened more foreign countries to Enron than anyone else has ever dreamed of.He’s a good liberal though…
I don’t know if you had seen this yet but read the tall lanky guy in the striped shirts sign…the best.
http://static.crooksandliars.com/files/uploads/2009/08/town_hall_signs_fe963.JPG
plunger,
thank you for this info…i had either forgotten or never heard it
“On September 10, 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference to disclose that over $2,000,000,000,000 in Pentagon funds could not be accounted for. Rumsfeld stated: “According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions.â€
one thing i didn’t see you mention in your very through “report” was that china was schedualed to enter the world trade organization on the thursday following sept 11,considering the devastation that has caused the US economy,i think you might add that to your investigation
99,
a while back you said you were looking for anything that would give you a glimmer of hope about our new pres
may i suggest,
1.justice did not keep sibel from testifying
2.isreal has apparently stopped building in disputed territories
3.ubs released info about (i forget exact number) 4000 swiss bank accounts
i am not defending our current pres,i am very disapointed in the way he seems to be sheilding the last admins criminal activities but i try to look at both sides and i thought those 3 examples might actually be good things
btw brad,99,vr and ernie,great job on making cheney “look”
SiliconDoc aka Lanny Davis
Like I said, Lanny told the truth. The link to any “fact check” is HUFFINGTON POST – not the Annenberg sponsored and popularly cited url.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_crisis#Detention_order
” The military is in charge of security and logistics in elections in Honduras. Zelaya asked them to perform their election role for the referendum, but the head of the military command, General Romeo Vásquez Velásquez, refused the order to pass out the election materials, brought from Venezuela,[citation needed] because the Supreme Court ruled the referendum to be illegal. On 24 June Zelaya fired him.”
NEXT: ” In the crisis, President Manuel Zelaya’s was removed from the country by military force on the 28th of June after the Supreme Court of Honduras had issued an order on June 26 for his detention, which had been replaced in January 2009. Afterwards the court published a Communication explaining its actions. The Court determined that the president had violated Article 239 of the Constitution, which forbids a president from seeking to serve more than to one term in office and provides that any president seeking to amend or alter this constitutional limitation is to be removed from office. The validity of the court’s ruling has been challenged ”
ONCE AGAIN, LANNY TOLD THE TRUTH !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Honduras
Now, I DON’T NEED LINKS, since the LIARS made themselves very clear in the clip – and it was very clear WHO WAS TELLING THE TRUTH and who WAS NOT, but there are links for those who want to complain about YEARS of everything else and in one big WHINE make false statements concerning what is going on now for Honduras.
” Guilt by association and stated histories ” doesn’t cut it with ME – although it is more than clear that is all that matters to some, and telling countless lies to further that PERCEPTION AGENDA, instead of basing arguments on SOUND FACTS concerning the current occurrences, is not something I’ll support.
I’d make better arguments for Zelaya myself, and SEVERAL are absolutely OBVIOUS and haven’t even been stated here.
Honduras SC statement: http://www.poderjudicial.gob.hn/NR/rdonlyres/87E2BFFC-AF4D-44EA-BFC5-D93730D8D81C/2413/ExpedienteJudicial1.pdf|Special
Oh, and ALSO : ” On 23 June, up to tens of thousands of people marched in San Pedro Sula against Zelaya’s alleged re-election plans.[77] On June 27, thousands of protesters opposed to Zelaya marched through the capital city Tegucigalpa.[78]”
YES THERE ARE TENS OF THOUSANDS AGAINST ZELAYA MARCHING AS WELL.
Now how about the TRUTH !
( It seems to me telling countless lies and using sensationalized emotionalism to “govern” or whip up the people – didn’t turn out so well – and doesn’t do a thing when trying to DEFEND against the ouster other than show people like me it REQUIRES LIES to do so. Why is that ? Why are LIES necessary ? )
Make a SOLID ARGUMENT without lies and near decades of former WHINES based upon this or that player or set of players.
That’s certainly what the MOVEMENT NEEDS and DOES NOT HAVE !
Let’s NOT FORGET the other truths that are so easily “not stated” !
” Two incidents earlier this year make the case. The first occurred in January when the country was preparing to name a new 15-seat Supreme Court, as it does every seven years. An independent board made up of members of civil society had nominated 45 candidates. From that list, Congress was to choose the new judges.
Mr. Zelaya had his own nominees in mind, including the wife of a minister, and their names were not on the list. So he set about to pressure the legislature. On the day of the vote he militarized the area around the Congress and press reports say a group of the president’s men, including the minister of defense, went to the Congress uninvited to turn up the heat. The head of the legislature had to call security to have the defense minister removed.
In the end Congress held its ground and Mr. Zelaya retreated. But the message had been sent: The president was willing to use force against other institutions. ”
SO, NOT GETTING ONE’S WAY IN APPOINTMENTS ? IS A DICTATORSHIP A DEMOCRACY ?
“In May there was an equally scary threat to peace issued by the Zelaya camp as the president illegally pushed for a plebiscite on rewriting the constitution. Since the executive branch is not permitted to call for such a vote, the attorney general had announced that he intended to enforce the law against Mr. Zelaya.
A week later some 100 agitators, wielding machetes, descended on the attorney general’s office. “We have come to defend this country’s second founding,” the group’s leader reportedly said. “If we are denied it, we will resort to national insurrection.”
ROFL – ONE HUNDRED CRAZED “defenders” wielding machete’s descended upon the AG office.
Are these two incidencts something Amy will discuss with Lanny, or the article’s author acknowledge, instead of calling me names ?
Now you have the LINKS you so desired.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124744094880829815.html
Here’s yer solid argument SD: No one in Honduras would have gone ahead with a coup without the permission of the United States first. Period. It couldn’t last five minutes without our consent. No matter HOW you argue the Honduran constitution, the fact of the forcible ouster of the elected president without due process and with the consent of the only people who could stop them is an illegal act, a foreign backed coup d’état, a U.S.-backed coup d’état. You can heap that over with any amount of blather you want, and it doesn’t change a thing… only clouds the issue for rubes… a very familiar tactic, no? An all too familiar one….
karen
I think you may have meant to post on another thread…. I don’t see plunger here… but, anyway, it seems Obama’s failure to stop Sibel from testifying only means he has a better read on just how willing the media is to report it, so it’s not impressive enough to give me much hope. I don’t think the settlement stuff is apparent at all, keep hearing too many horror stories still. And I don’t know if exposing tax cheats is a big enough bonus to restore my vitality either… maybe if he’d actually tax the wealthy enough to make their cheating more understandable, then I’d get more excited….
But thanks for trying! 🙁
First Secretary of the National Congress of Honduras certifies the ARTICLE 239 reasoning.
” 3.The democratic state of law was repeatedly breached by the citizen José Manuel Zelaya Rosales, who time and again violated the Constitution of the republic, disavowing expressly and publicly the jurisdiction of the other branches and rejecting the resolutions and recommendations of the public institutions, in particular that of the Office of the Public Prosecutor, the General Attorney’s Office, the Supreme Electoral Tribunal, the Tribunal of Administrative Law, the Supreme Court of Justice, and the National Commissioner of Human Rights. In this manner, the citizen, José Manuel Zelaya Rosales achieved de facto supremacy over the other branches of government, creating chaos, uncertainty and anarchy, as well as an environment which has favored the growth in crime, corruption and drug trafficking, and further, the manifest and reprehensible lack of attention to the financial crisis and the population’s problems as a result of the A(H1N1) pandemic and the earthquake which recently shook Honduras.
4.As a result, as is expressed in the report and Legislative Decree of the 28th of June, the Honorable National Congress agreed to censure the conduct of the citizen José Manuel Zelaya Rosales and remove him from office by virtue of Constitutional Article 239, and based on an arrest warrant issued by the Supreme Court of Justice and in enforcement of the constitutional law of succession, name the President of Congress Roberto Michelletti Bain to the office of Constitutional President of the Republic for the remainder of the presidential term, until the 27th of January, 2010, date upon which the President elected by the general elections of November, 2009, will take office. ”
OH WELL – Lanny was telling the truth.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12639
Thank you Canada. lol 🙂
Dear Agent99 – that is another point or talking point that doesn’t matter one whit concerning who is the big fat liar crew in the clip.
You know, the big problem is, the lefty broke the law, and NONE OF YOU have even tried to claim otherwise, have you ?
I actually DO identify with those wishing for or working toward FAIR WAGES and real justice for the little guys and gals, but how is that possible when outright law breaking (with ballots shipped in from Venezuela ? LOL he couldn’t even get anyone in his own nation to print them ? ) is the METHOD of “change”.
You may or may not be partially accurate with your complaint that the USA “gives permission or denial for nearly everything” – but the problem with that IS – IT APPEARS TO HINGE UPON LAW THAT IS ALREADY IN PLACE AT THE TIME.
If the USA makes an argument, should it side with “ballots flown in from a foreign nation” that are widely understood to be “illegal when pushed on the people from the executive branch” in Honduras ?
I mean WHERE DO YOU draw the line ?
My apologies for not being a psychotic fanboy of leftism, I somehow EXPECT the law to be followed.
Do what IS RIGHT – and fight on the basis of ILLEGAL REMOVAL FROM HONDURAS !
As you see, that is already the LYNCHPIN that gives Zelaya a way back into office.
That is ALSO BASED upon LAW – a law that WAS IN PLACE and was violated.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, but just as true, claiming NO WRONGS ever happened on one side while demonizing and lying about the other doesn’t cut it – AT ALL.
I don’t subscribe to an ideology that stands on ” I don’t care what the facts are I’m for X no matter what because it’s blah blah blah “.
I’ve seen the LIARS, and have been LIED TO for far too long.
And, you and the righty Canadians seem also to forget that the entire OAS has deemed it a coup d’état… including the United States, two-faced as that is. You are sliding right over the part about Zelaya seeking to conduct an opinion poll rather than another term in office — that there is no way to construe his action as a power grab, for himself or anyone else — and you ignore the part about the corruption of the Honduran Supreme Court… all moot anyway, since coups d’état are illegal.
The lefty did not break the law!
The OAS wouldn’t be backing him if he had!
He was polling the people to see if they would like to change that provision in the future… obviously well after he would have left office.
And he isn’t a lefty! He just seems to have figured out that seeking the good of the people over the wishes of the fat cats is the right kind of presidenting.
Progressive’s To Do List
Outlaw electronic vote tabulation devices globally. ;o)
Pretty creepy that our president doesn’t agree with him on that, too….
He even dropped the taking of the poll thing in his negotiations to be returned to his rightful station without bloodshed, and the fascists wouldn’t even take that victory and stand down.
This is fascism playing hardball with democratic populism before it can start to be too good for the little guy. Obama is being outrageously aggressive for them, and, obviously, much more competent at it than their last stooge.
Silly us, so giddy about the prospect of a competent president the world would like….
I mean hey, you can get a forced innoculation for a stupid flu globally, why not honest elections where the public make sure the chain of custody and count is straight.
Or maybe you want another friggin war in the CE jungle’s? death squads, drugs, weapons, treason?
what happened last time the US (unofficially) screwed around in CE? Does anyone remember?
And the money?
hmm, if I was a bank, I would get a shoebox, poop in it, and seal it with a label which say’s it represents 65 trillion. Then when you need money, I would print some.
Oh wait..
(Sarcasm)
And, oh, crap, Haystacks, my coffee is just now kicking in. Will you just go the fuck away? You have been told a thousand times, in a thousand ways you are no longer welcome here. What kind of a jerk wants to just keep on coming back when he knows he’s not welcome? A stalker. A stalker.
That was NOT his only illegal action: ” You are sliding right over the part about Zelaya seeking to conduct an opinion poll rather than another term in office — that there is no way to construe his action as a power grab, for himself or anyone else ”
No I’m not sliding over anything or even claiming he was trying for another term.
I am saying HE BROKE THE LAW – that’s WHAT I SAID.
I pointed out other incidents where HE BROKE THE LAW.
Now you want to argue intracacies about what the SC or H congress did or did not do – but the FACT remains, I posted the 1st secretary’s statement article 239 is CITED, PERIOD. Then it degrades into a DATE argument. Sorry, the Zelaya’s LIED.
You can continue to NOT FOCUS on the truth, and DENY Zelaya’s lawbreaking (by omitting any reference to it) and then WHINE endlessly about DECADES of opression, to “make your case” – and that of course is what you do. Then you claim “there’s no reason for the congress to remove him for what he wasn’t trying”- WELL THEY DISAGREED WITH YOU ! THEY ARE IN CHARGE! NOT YOU!
I was told “they didn’t do that – by you people – BUT thanks to Canadian Free Press – THE TRUTH WAS POSTED! NOW YOU DISAGREE WITH THE HONDURAS CONGRESS.. SO WHAT!!???!! HOW ABOUT ACKNOWLEDGING THEY SAID IT !!!?? HOW ABOUT APOLOGIZING FOR CLAIMING THEY DID NOT ? ( I know I know, YOU specifically “never said that” or maybe you did, and thought it, and screamed it – who cares ! Being wrong SETTLES IT
Dear Agent99, you callingh it a “poll” as if Rasmussen or ABC carried it out is HILARIOUS, and ANOTHER LIE.
” He even dropped the taking of the poll thing in his negotiations to be returned to his rightful station without bloodshed, and the fascists wouldn’t even take that victory and stand down.”
This is what I’m talking about. HE FLEW IN BALLOTS FROM VENEZUELA- THEN AFTER THEY’RE ON THE THE AIR FORCE BASE HE STORMED IT WITH STREET THUGS TO TAKE THEM!
That’s not “polling”. Why tell such GIGANTIC LIES ? You didn’t know- you didn’t pay attention ? I;m not certain, but WHO CARES !? You’re WRONG ! PERIOD !
—-
Was Zelaya trying to secure another term ? Who knows ? Who cares ! The PROBLEM IS it sure looks BAD when you’re BREAKING THE LAW and storming air force bases to abscond with foreign printed * LOL ! * “people’s ballots” – NOTEDLY NOT A POLLING QUESTION!
—
Thanks for “spreading your silly propaganda”.
SiliconDoc – Though cites to Wikipedia (suddenly that’s “Annenberg approved”??) are fine, but hardly dispositive of anything, as Wiki is frequently worked by lobbies who can change the text to anything they like.
That said, just one point: Even Davis admitted that it was illegal, according to the Honduran constitution, to send anybody out of the country. As much as you, or anyone else, may wish to argue that Zalaya broke the law, tossing him out of the country, as even Davis admitted was wrong and illegal.
In the bargain, the military coup plotters, I believe, gave away any higher moral ground they *might* have had prior to that.
Dear Brad Friedman – although Wiki is not, NOR IS ANY internet site assured of being correct, we as people have to rely on what is “out there”, and make determinations based upon COMMON SENSE and the preponderance of evidence.
Just stating ” the lefty never broke the law” as one poster here does trying to combat the facts, adding “the OAS wouldn’t support him otherwise” is clearly and easily dismissed as RIDICULOUS !
It’s already stark ravingly CLEAR that “BOTH SIDES” have broken the law, not one or the other !
Much like here in the USA, my friend.
After complaining there are no links, then providing them that PROVE the lies were told, heading back to “well internet sites aren’t always correct” is PATHETIC.
WHAT REALLY HAPPENED is EASILY put together by the links and facts provided – and BOTH SIDES BLEW IT – and it is clear NO ONE HERE except me can admit that ! At least not yet, from what I have seen.
Zelaya should be returned because of the illegal way the ouster was mishandled, and what I would like to see happen is the H Congres, SC, and Zelaya get together and the H congress can draft a ballot question for the upcoming election including Zelaya’s people’s ideas and ALSO make a binding law he cannot continue in office ( that he will sign and the SC will ok).
That would be a decent resolution.
In any case, the PEOPLE should vote in the upcoming election – and Zelaya SHOULD STOP BREAKING THE LAW.
He breaks it again at the left movement’s peril. He BROKE THE LAW – that’s what started this.
STOP BREAKING THE LAW and work for smaller gains over time within the system -OR YOU WILL LOSE OR HAVE A BLOODY REVOLUTION OF PURE CRIME TO WIN.
That’s just the way it is.
Brad, yes EVEN LANNY admitted it !: ” Even Davis admitted that it was illegal, according to the Honduran constitution, to send anybody out of the country. ”
THAT’S CALLED TELLING THE TRUTH.
One could certainly whine that he didn’t denounce it, and could have “admitted it” in a much more outright and forthcoming manner ( I would say he MINIMIZED it and avoided it ) – but HE DID ACKNOWLEDGE IT.
That’s a LOT MORE than can be said about the other two in the clip. THEY LIED, PERIOD.
—-
Which was of course my original point.
My position is the left will win WHEN IT STARTS TELLING THE TRUTH – instead of having an endless list of emotional historical crybaby whines – that they may be have been lying as much about THEN (VERY LIKELY), as they now LIE to “establish their side”.
STOP LYING is my point. If one has to tell lies to make ” the point” – why then it is clear the point is NOTHING anyway.
If Zelaya returns, NO MORE OPEN LAW BREAKING CLAIMING YOU HAVE THE PEOPLE BEHIND YOU – THEN JUST DOING IT…
Ten thousand marched AGAINST HIM – something I also posted – we are well aware he only has AT BEST “half the people” behind him – just like here in the USA. THAT’S THE TRUTH TOO !
Is the truth so, so hard, to even acknowledge ? Apparently so.
Here’s an argument for ya.
Bla bla bla the honduras this, the article number that… all irrelevant! All moot. Maybe Another version to your tastebuds?
What’s the point of trying to clean up any government on Earth when you have such dangers operating in your country’s elections?
Get the machines out, get the people that support the machines out, get the money and broadcast spectrum supporting lies and corruption out, get public oversight on the chaos which are representing our “respective countries” current elections.
na that’s way too simple.
have a nother bloody brother town hall meeting…
Okay, just crap all over this thread with sophistry.
Fine.
Wherever the ballots were printed, they were ballots to POLL the population about whether they would like to vote on amending the constitution about term limits. It wasn’t a vote to change the term limits. It was a separate gig to see if the people supported that idea… something like a regular opinion poll, only with physical evidence. It wasn’t a power grab. It wasn’t a president changing the constitution. It could not have applied to him because he would have been constitutionally out of office before an actual amendment would have been made.
He did not break the law. He skirted it in an effort to make plain the people’s wishes, something the fat cats didn’t want to endure.
Your blather about liars is just that. That poll would have shown for real how many Hondurans were behind him… and you know full well that was, and is, the vast majority. But you don’t seem to give a fig about democracy, just defending plutocrats.
Your first link leads to another Zelaya crime : ” The seizure was carried out on the third storey of the building annex to the Department of the Presidency that had been rented the former home secretary, Enrique Flowers Throws.
The public prosecutor, Roberto Ram�rez, declared that zone as the “scene of the crime” and, although he wanted to need more details, said that the found evidence would be able to characterize the crimes of fraud, embezzlement, forgery of documents and abuse of authority. Ram�rez did not rule out that these computers were to be utilized in the final count of the referendum.
“This group of some 45 computers, by the appearance that present, they would be used for the launch of the supposed final results of the quarter ballot box”, he explained. The computers belonged to the project ‘Learns’ of the Honduran Counsel of Science and Technology directed towards rural schools. All of the computers had been lettered with the name of the department for the one that would transmit the information accompanied by a document with the headline: “Leaf of test”, that contained all the data of the centers of voting.”
— http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?D=2009-07-18&ID=274578
THANKS for that nerd news link that got it 100% INCORRECT but provided a few direct links one to USAtoday and this one I’ve used that shows ANOTHER Zelaya sponsored crime.
How would you guys like it if DICK CHENEY’s residence was used for all the DIEBOLD machine transmission results ? LOL rofl
But Zelaya can do it ! rofl
—-
I’ll check your second link – good thing Zelaya’s machines were confiscated it appears he had the whole SCAM going well.
” Tegucigalpa — The National Direction of Criminal Investigation confiscated computers in the Presidential House in which were registered the supposed results…”
—
ROFL IN THE LEFTIES WORLD GEORGE W BUSH WOULD GUARD HIS OWN BALLOT INITIATIVE RESULTS, ON HIS OWN PRESIDENTIAL GROUNDS!
bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Thank you so much Phil !
Sorry agent99 – you spoke TOO SOON – it is now clear that Zelaya had FALSE ELECTION RESULTS ready in 45 machines PRE-DETERMINED to give him the win…
” He did not break the law. He skirted it in an effort ”
ROFL
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?D=2009-07-18&ID=274578
So, Zelaya whipped up the ILLEGAL vote, then had his 45 “DIEBOLD” machines ready with reults for a vote that never happened, and lo and behold, his machines claimed he WON on his “people’s initiative” overwhelmingly.
hahahahhaa
Yes, he didn’t “break the law” he just “skirted it” – BWBABAAAAHAHAHAHA
Sophistry – LOL
Oh my, what a “bad developement” in the rest of the story.
Thanks agent99, you’re everything you claimed me to be.
SiliconDoc – For a start, if you wish anyone to take you a bit more seriously around here, try losing the hysterical ALL CAPS and hit the CR/LF (Enter) key every now and again. Your posts may be a bit more readable, and then actually get read.
Beyond that, you said:
Right. And, on the night that Teddy Kennedy died, I noted that Wiki was reporting he was killed just before midngiht by OJ Simpson.
If you are unable to cite verified and/or verifiable sources to help make your case, do not expect folks around here to be impressed. What do you think this is, the Glenn Beck show??
Beyond that, it’s lovely that you’re defending Lanny Davis for accepting money from foreign agents who, even you admit, broke the law. Do you have *any* values of your own? Or just what the wingnuts tell you to beleive?
As Brad Friedman notes, the mere fact that Wikipedia contains a fact time line does not, of itself, make it more accurate than Prof. Grandin’s fact-check article.
More important, however, is the mendacity reflected by SiliconDoc’s (SD) selective points.
For example, SD selectively quotes wikipedia:
SD leaves off from that same wikipedia piece [emphasis added]:
In terms of what we regard as the essence of due process, even if the coup plotters’ debatable allegations were true, the Honduran Supreme Court’s actions would be suspect:
From wikipedia [emphasis added]:
So if there was a Supreme Court order to arrest Zalaya issued before armed soldiers stormed the Presidential Palace, it was issued in secret by a single Jurist based upon a secret ex parte communication made in secret allegations presented by the Attorney General.
If this occurred in the U.S., the Attorney General would face disbarment proceedings and the judge, having violated basic cannons of judicial ethics, would be subject to impeachment and removal from office.
SD cited a second wikipedia piece but neglected to mention it contained this little tidbit:
Had SD bothered to read Grandin’s Huffington Post fact check article rather than assume its invalidity, he/she would have learned that whereas wikipedia relied upon the representations of Davis and others that the Honduran Supreme Court had relied upon Article 239, Grandin linked to the Court’s June 25 decision [PDF]:
Grandin, quoting Davis, states:
As to Davis’ unjustified assault on Amy Goodman’s impartiality, Grandin, supported by a specific link, states:
To those honest readers of the Brad Blog, I apologize for having to repeat the content of articles when a link should ordinarily suffice.
I see that I had committed an error in assuming that SD was simply a true believer. I had underestimated the level of his/her mendacity — his/her willingness to twist and distort even the selected sources he/she belatedly cites.
As was once said to the late Sen. Joseph McCarthy, to SiliconDoc I ask, “Have you no sense of shame?”
Hey, Lanny, ever hear of School of the Americas watch and Father Roy???
http://www.soaw.org/
Father Roy Bourgeois is the founder of School of the Americas Watch:
FATHER ROY BOURGEOIS: “Well, first of all, we’re not surprised, you know, that there’s a connection to the School of the Americas, now called WHINSEC. This school is well known in Latin America as a school of coups, a school of dictators, a school of torture. There is a direct connection, which we expected.
The two main players in this coup in Honduras that ousted President Zelaya are two generals, well-known graduates of the school: General Romero Vasquez, who’s the commander-in-chief, the head of the military, not only a graduate, a two-time graduate; and, of course, also General Luis Suazo, a graduate of the school in 1996, who’s the head of the air force.
This school is well known in Latin America, again, as a school of coups. Whenever there is a massacre, cases of torture, human rights abuses, we have been able to document a direct connection to this school. This school has trained over 60,000 soldiers from fifteen countries in Latin America in combat skills, all paid for, I must say, by the US taxpayers.”
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/1/generals_who_led_honduras_military_coup
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/kristin-bricker/2009/06/coup-honduras
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrlGfjUlQyI&feature=player_embedded
Sign up for father roy’s email alerts here:
http://soaw.org/contact/
I do!
This is a good subject, thanks for bringing it up, everyone!
Hey, SiliconDoc, any comments on School of the Americas, Father Roy, or WHINSEC?
I guess that’s a ficticious, non-existent school, and the guy responsible for the recent coup in Honduras did NOT attend there, we’re all just imagining it!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PBS documentary:
Father Roy: Inside the School of Assassins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhgBvG1SDzM
Must see video!!!!!!!!!!!!
From the Mouth of an International Banker
–
Quote by Josiah Stamp, Bank of England –
Where’s AstroDoc?
Don’t taunt him, Danny, or he will be back at your blog driving you nuts with his crap again.
karen @ #17
Re point #2:
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/08/30/report-israel-accelerating-settlement-growth-in-east-jerusalem/
So… hell…. 🙁
Now LET’S HEAR IT about the 45 pre-determined voting results machines!
Hurrah for the CRIMINAL Zelaya !
HURRAH for the CRIMINAL Zelaya!
It was VERY FUNNY to watch the whiner cry about other quotes on Wiki – which do what – ARGUE that HOW Zelaya was removed “wasn’t legal” ?
ROFLMAO
ZELAYA BROKE LAW MULTIPLE TIMES AND BROUGHT IT ALL DOWN ON HIMSELF.
Now the “fighting lefty” bloggers here are REDUCED to WHINING about dates, before or after – WHATEVER – WHO CARES!!!!
The CONGRESS slapped Zaleya away, stripped him, the SC did so as well- and SO DID THE MILITARY whose job it is to do so THERE.
” If that was the AG here (blah blah blah! )” — like I said EVEN AMY and her idiot lying proffs PRETENDED that USA law is valid THERE – and now another one here whined the about the same thing in a comparison.
TELL ME ABOUT BALLOTS FROM A FOREIGN NATION (your Chavez commie coup master failed) then STORMING the AF base, to try to STEAL your ILLEGAL foreign printings, and then the 45 “DEIBOLD MACHINES” your hero has all set up for a FAKE VICTORY. NOW THAT’S HILARIOUS!!!!
—
Yes, after all those years whining about Bush and deibold, here we have the hard lefty CAUGHT with compromised pre-programmed results in machines.
I’m not surprised, the lefties screamed unfair and decided they had the right to dissemble, test, hack, spam, corrupt, trick, punture, reprogram, and whatever other methods they used to “test the integrity of the ballotlless ‘deibold’ and the like machines” – so WHAT THEY HAVE as a result IS A GIANT DATABASE ON EXACTLY HOW TO CRACK, HACK, CORRUPT, DISTORT, AND REPROGRAM THE ELECTION MACHINES.
bawahahahahahahahahaaa
Yes, we believe the lefties were just doing it to “protect the masses” – LIKE HECK WE DO !!!!!
my only point was (if anyone cares) is everywhere the electronic vote tabulation devices are installed, it’s not long for absolute corruption to follow behind.
When people want to inflate their ego’s by sniping democracy now’s best journalist. (Who at least let the debate go on, with a subtle reminder to the guests–who’s show they were on) well that’s just sour. How easy it is to lose sight of the destructive nature these electronic vote tabulation devices which nobody ever seems to focus on. Hey, be stupid, keep on that same track and eventually no public meeting will ever be the same, it will just be a series of pointless, meaningless shouting matches with a bunch of shills in there from the first pair of shoes in the door, to the edited and remixed propaganda flooding the public broadcast spectrum.
At least with a music show (like mine) you know what your getting up front. Things are so screwed up now, you can’t trust a damn thing on broadcast tv.
Step back everyone, Think about it. Electronic vote tabulation devices are a coup. They are being abused in the United States now, the ultimate election control. If you control your own election or someone does for you, you don’t have to answer to not one idiot like me who tries to hold you accountable.
These devices cost us trillions, these devices cost us lives, and our Constitution, Bill of Rights, and worst of all the ability to seek any resemblance of happiness. Until you come to grips with this it’s going to get much worse.
These devices are so insidious.
They cause us to fight among ourselves (ignoring our own corruption, problems, and elections) and instead insanely arguing over other country’s who have adopted electronic vote tabulation devices–it’s hell on Earth for the loser.
So go on, tear Amy Goodman apart.
Then, Have another bloody brother-peanut butter town hall meeting.
And I also remind you, I never said one thing about left vs right as far as I am concerned they can both fuck off. Left vs right is dead, it’s a corporate media turd, and if your mentality is still there, your pretty much a dead ender.
It’s why there is an Independant, Peace, Green, Libertarian party. There are more valid and serious political parties which get dogshit for media coverage, as compared to the same old stinking R vs D turds who are both the same driving everyone over the financial cliff.
They can hide it only a little while longer, and they will soon be forced to carry the can themselves. Just wait until Asia say’s, “we’re not buying your bonds.” All this corruption and hell is going to break loose.
ps: you don’t have to agree with me, this is more along the lines of a prediction.
If you just want to complain about these electronic vote tabulation devices, you have to go through a ton of shit. Impossible for the average person. Very difficult, if not impossible also, for someone who has some knowledge. If you have zero knowledge, then it will be impossible. The people controlling it don’t care if you don’t have time. That’s cause they use time as a weapon. They use many other tricks as a weapon, like sending back a canned response to your complaint. Or changing the law if your going to win a lawsuit.
If you want a global Earth, fine. I see no problem with that, it might even be good for the whole planet, and for defense against anyone hostile visiting our planet, but the moment you allow the profit, and greed, and fascist laws to muck it all up, it’s never going to work, our planet will end up as a stinking pile of burnt ash, just like the fires in California.
When most American’s don’t even know where the hell Honduras is on a freaking map, they sure the f**k don’t know what digital logic or a truth table is! which is why they don’t understand how bad electronic vote tabulation devices are
So go ahead, spin who has or doesn’t have control of such devices. As I already said, it doesn’t matter! These devices are the final solution. The end all. I don’t really care what f**king party you belong to, if your using and pushing these devices you are corrupt. Not one of these electronic vote tabulation devices allow for a public oversight of the chain of custody of the election. Not one.
NOT ONE!
You guys forgot to tell us about the black garbage bags full of cash in almost every drawer at the Zelaya presidential house:
” When the investigations were made at the presidential house, black garbage bags filled with thousands and thousands of dollars were found, as well as in almost every drawer.”
rofl – garbage bags filled with cash !
http://hondurasnews.com/2009/07/04/government-removes-zelayas-perks/
Is the name “SiliconDoc” supposed to be ironic???
silicon – plastic – fake – astroturf
Phil is exactly right about e-vote machines. The final solution.
Here’s what I find interesting with SiliconDoc, and I always point this out: let me preface, though, with there’s freedom of speech, comment away, SiliconDoc!
Here’s what I always notice: I’ve been here for years, NEVER seen SiliconDoc, I find it odd that someone with opposite views of a blog is reading it…let alone commenting.
When this subject goes away, so will SiliconDoc…seen it before.
Call me crazy, but I find it odd, that there seems to be a different “new” person popping up on every post, who disagrees with it, then goes away.
Does anyone else find that odd? I do.
I’m not against it, just pointing it out.
I’m just saying, the odds of that are astronomical.
Comment #57…..PHIL…
Absolutely Phil. I myself was a leftist vs righty warrior UNTIL….Obama.
Obama’s administration so far has demonstrated to me that I’ve (we’ve) been bamboozled. Bamboozled by the corporatists and banking elites. They have co-opted the mainstream media into fostering the us vs them, left vs right, red vs blue conflict in order to use that distraction to rob us blind and imprison us with debt and fear.
We have hated our way into a fascist state. I lived through the counter culture revolt of the 60’s; that was child’s play compared to what’s happening today.
We have become a nation of sheep that don’t want to know, neo-political warriors that will buy any piece of blather their side feeds them, angry eliminationists (great link Big Dan)who have forgotten that we’re all getting raped by coercive forces without our knowledge or proper lube.
We’ll bend over and take it as long as they make us think that we’re taking one for the team and sticking to the other side.
We’re being played for silly saps…
It’s time to find some common ground with those conservatives who are awake. It’s time to stop trying to be “right” or better said correct. Our enemy isn’t conservatives …it’s ignorance.
A spiritual teacher once asked me…
“Do you want to be right or do you want to be healed ?”
We on the *left* can stubbornly cling to being right about what’s happening and lose the country we love. I’m not talking compromise; I’m talking survival as a nation and restoring our dignity and economic freedom.
As Ben Franklin quoted…
“Either we’ll hang together or hang separately.”
It’s almost too late…WAKE THE HELL UP!
Dan #62 and #63 – not odd at all. I’ve never been here or seen this place before I was given the link to the Sibel Edmonds piece about a week ago.
I WILL PROBABLY leave very soon.
—
The reason is Dan, the person who disagrees here is ATTACKED by a group of LIARS – who use their silly little SLANDERS – yours seems to “ASTROTURF”.
—
Yeah Dan, when one has a shred of sanity, and a tiny little itty bitty glob of COMMON SENSE – it’s NOT HARD TO FIGURE WHY IT HAPPENS, NOW IS IT YOU FREAKING GENIUS !?
—
Sometimes it’s PAINFUL to see HOW BLINDED people are.
Good luck.
What a piece of work this SiliconDoc is.
In comment #45 I painstakingly pulled apart the links he/she relied upon; demonstrated time and again how he/she quoted Wikipedia out-of-context, including only the unsubstantiated claims of the coup plotters and their consigliere for hire, Lanny Davis.
I demonstrated, for example, that where the coup plotters allege the Honduran Supreme Court issued a secret order for Zelaya to be arrested before the military stormed the presidential palace and sent the duly elected President into exile at gun point,
This, out of the very Wikipedia account which the dissembling SiliconDoc used to claim that it was the consigliere Lanny Davis who had it right and everyone who says otherwise is a liar.
I also pointed to the actual content of the Grandin fact-check article that SiliconDoc chose to ignore or simply didn’t read; a fact-check article that linked to the very Supreme Court decision which was relied upon by Davis — a decision that, on its face, refutes the coup plotter’s claim that the Honduran Supreme Court had found that Zelaya had violated Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution when, in truth, the decision fails even to mention Article 239.
So what does SiliconDoc do now? He/she ignores the fact that I uncovered his/her mendacity and goes on to link to a new, unverified coup plotter claim of finding bags of cash stashed in the Presidential residence.
Of course, SiliconDoc ignores the fact that any semblence of democracy in Honduras ended with a military coup that brought with it a brutal dictatorship that has chosen to employ veterans of the infamous and murderous Battalion 3-16.
The coup plotters have total control of the Honduran media and can make up facts, like an alleged Supreme Court advance approval of the coup when, per a member of the Honduran attorney general’s office, the decision was not issued until after the coup.
There is no way to verify whether the bags of cash were found or planted. There is no way that anyone can rely on anything the coup plotters have to say, and, frankly, SiliconDoc, there is no way that anyone can rely on anything you have to say.
And no, SiliconDoc, I did not, as you suggest in latest response to Dan (comment #66) “attack” you as a “liar” because you “disagree” with me. You, by contrast, attacked Amy Goodman and Prof. Grandin as “liars” simply because they did not agree with you and your hero, Lanny Davis.
I called you out as a liar because your selective presentation of the very Wikipedia articles you linked to reflects an appalling level of intellectual dishonesty.
As Brad Friedman so eloquently noted, the Brad Blog isn’t the Glenn Beck hour on Fox News. You can’t slide from one exposed piece of propaganda to another without expecting the reality-based readers of this blog to tear that propaganda apart.
If you can’t engage in an intellectually honest debate, then I’d respectfully request that you climb back beneath the slime-covered rock from which you emerged.
Oh what a bunch of HOGWASH. You simply DECLARE there is no way anyone can believe anything the side YOU DISAGREE WITH says.
YOU HAVE NOT ADRESSED THE CRIMES OF ZELAYA.
Next, you’ll claim he didn’t storm the AF base with a mob, didn’t TRY to have his ILLEGAL ballot initiative, and ON AND ON.
No sir, it certainly is NOT I that has the ideological raving mind of lies.
As is ever expected from you people, you can’t believe ANY FACTS that don’t support your left wing FANTASY mindset.
You gonna deny Zelaya fired the military man who wouldn’t carry out his ILLEGAL initiative too ?
rofl
You’re WORTHLESS as far as facts.
You spend 99% of your time whining about your long list of decades old grievances and wail about guilt by association or your already twisted in conspiracy characterizations and pretend that makes everything ok for you.
In FACT, the title of the article SAYS IT ALL – it’s not about truth, justice, or anything concerning the Honduras people or the CRIMES of the ousted would be revolutionary or the NEAR HISTORY of his dictator ballot printing pal – it’s all about you HATING LANNY DAVIS and SMEARING HIM because you don’t really for a second want to talk about THE TRUTH.
The truth for you is ” you believe NOTHING ” that you haven’t MADE UP or intricately and specially selected as the tiny “fact” you want to believe, while DISMISSING everything else FROM THE SAME SOURCE.
It’s PATHETIC, period.
Keep your foolish hating up, you’ll never stop, that’s for certain – but LANNY DAVIS will always be the one who TOLD THE TRUTH, and Amy and her lying proffs will always be the LIARS in this case. You’ve done MUCH THE SAME and EVEN WORSE.
AND THE SIDE THE FOOL DISAGREES WITH IS FILLED WITH ZELAYA PARTY MEMBERS AND SUPPORTERS IN OFFICE !
That OUTLINES the DEPTHS of the DEPRAVITY of the sick mind of the lefty.
“THE COUP SUPPORTERS INCLUDE ZELAYAS OWN PEOPLE! ”
But, the dim, non functional light of the ranting lefty – can ignore that entirely, and demand FACTS presented BY THE POWERS THAT BE THAT HOLD THE LAW IN OFFICE – be ” not believed”.
WHAT A HOOT THE LEFTY LIARS ARE!
[ed note: Comment deleted. Banned commenter, using another name. –99]
Dana Gould has it exactly right about these so called conservative right wing whack-a-loons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21_teAW0Zg
If Davis is that SENSITIVE about being ” interrupted” that he childishly has to announce the number of times , I hope he has Kleenex with him in court, even though a ramrodded his points , while ATTACKING Amy Goodman .
It seems apparent Davis is defending the Oligarchs that refuse to increase minimum , at the behest of American globalist and he wouldn’t admit it was illegal to deport ANY Honduran at gum point , giving some some silly disingenuous ” it could have been done differently ”
Ya, I guess their constitution created during Reagan’s WAR ON CENTRAL AMERICA BY the death squad supporters , could have been done differently .
It could have been done not at all. Obama, either directly or through Hillary, simply could have said, “No.” The oligarchs in Honduras and the fruit companies would have been a little miffed, but barely fazed, and the people of Honduras would have had the chance to speak.
Everything would have carried on pretty much as always, only the workers might have gotten a little raise, and sometime in the next year or so the parliament might have begun writing up a bill to change the presidential term limits thing to something identical to ours.
But those Central and South American workers are getting too damn uppity. Can’t have that. Gotta make a showing of the spectacular ease with which we can topple all their movements for justice and equality… for survival.
See “Monroe Doctrine” it’s been policy ferever
roflmao – As I suspected – your posters brought up the other subject https://bradblog.com/?p=7393
, and yet the editor, right on cue, whines to me, after I told him he or she or it would. hahahhaha
One can predict the biased stupidity here.
Of course it was a ballot initiative and unbinding one, we have them here all the time, you moron editor, polls are done by phone, not by paper voting ballots that are identical to the former ones used in the country. After he got his vote, he could call for the convention to change, we all know that, we know the pattern of deciept, and so did his own party memebers who voted him Out Of Office from the SCOTUS and their Congress.
That’s 2 branches to one criminal Zelaya – who already pulled a dick nixon and then some – before getting canned.
Oh, its’ been fun, you people deserve each other, lying ever more, all the time.
You whined about Obama somewhere else. LOL a likely excuse- since of course it wasn’t here – even though the piece from you or your comrade complains about how much “you guys” complain about Obama here. LOL
A whole big bang of lying con, and of course it’s clear you vaguely realize Obama duped you, yet still cling to Zelaya the lying criminal – as if that one is any different.
Will he return the endless millions his minions stole from the central bank, they have those people on video, and the acct. statements, in case you lie about that as well.
Furthermore, the OAS is just doing the same thing every other lying power broker does, too little, too late, calling for a do-over, soothing parties, and taking their gigantic cut and hope for more power and control themselves, after the fact, with a bunch of whining liars like people here screaming in their ears. Oh well, your communist comrades may recieve the result they need anyway, for the lesson your power brokers will no doubt deliver, like 200% per year inflation in the ballot printing dictators Imperium.
They(OAS) have to declare the out of country move illegal, because we know it was, even Lanny, as your little welcome one unfortunately admitted said so himself in the clip, furthering my point about who the liars are, and are not, and you sir, are clearly the con artist liar, once again.
Congratulations for being an absolute disappointment.
What a shame.
( The Sibel Edmonds piece though was nice, at least there was a video like in this one, so all the lying propaganda by the regulars could be easily refuted, with all the other news links as well.)
I see you’ve all gone gonkers on me in the other thread https://bradblog.com/?p=7393 – well I leave you looking the uhh… excited ones – after bringing up this one, even the Author jumping in way before me and talking about his update in that other thread.
LOL
How pathetic of you not to reprimand the highjacker, “ed”. Shame on you.
[ed note: I’m still crying my eyes out! You’ve exposed me. I should let you have my job! –99]