As Jon Ponder noted here on Tuesday, a bi-partisan U.S. Senate panel has found [PDF] that George W. Bush was responsible for approving War Crimes (torture and abuse) at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, Dick Cheney admitted in a recent interview to helping to approve War Crimes (torture and abuse) in interrogations, and the corporate media — with the lone exception of MSNBC — have been virtually as silent on what may be the most offensive crimes ever committed by an Executive Branch in the U.S. as they were during the lead-up to and follow-through on the War on Iraq, when those same officials sent our nation into war on the basis of demonstrable lies.
George Washington University’s highly-respected constitutional law professor Jonathon Turley, noting the War Crimes now known and admitted to by Bush and Cheney, asked Keith Olbermann Tuesday night, “If someone commits a crime and everyone’s around to see it and does nothing, is it still a crime?”
(Please watch the video at right, or read the text transcript at the end of this article.)
During the discussion, Turley mentioned — no less than three different times — that it’ll be up to the citizens whether or not any action is actually taken to prosecute those who committed these crimes.
But is there any real basis — in 2008 — for his well-meaning argument? Not bloody likely…
“It will ultimately depend on citizens, and whether they will remain silent in the face of a crime that’s been committed in plain view,” Turley suggested. “It is equally immoral to stand silent in the face of a war crime and do nothing, and that is what the citizens are doing.”
He went on to argue: “There’s this gigantic yawn as we hear about a war crime on national television being discussed matter-of-factly by the Vice President.”
But how much can citizens actually do, particularly with the sparse amount of information they’ve been presented? They hit the streets to protest by the millions, prior to and during the War on Iraq, and the bulk of the media didn’t bother to even cover it. Accidentally paraphrasing Turley earlier today, Jill C. guest blogged the question: “If something happens in Washington and no one reports it, does it actually happen?”
I’m currently driving through Oklahoma (passenger seat) as I write this. Sean Hannity is on the radio, and a station promo just announced he’ll be followed by Michael Savage for three hours then Laura Ingraham for three hours, then John Gibson for three hours. I’m guessing Rush Limbaugh was on before Hannity. So, in those 15 consecutive hours of rightwing talk — on our publicly owned airwaves — who exactly will be informing citizens of the documented evidence of War Crimes committed by George W. Bush and Dick Cheney?
Yes, if the citizens began throwing shoes everywhere by the millions, someone in the corporate mainstream media might cover it somewhere. But without the daily barrage of real media, covering the topics that actually matter, with the attention they deserve, the citizens are often clueless, and otherwise virtually powerless, in this wingnut-fed media world we’ve allowed to be created around us.
If you doubt any of that, just ask yourselves what we’d be listening to on talk radio, and thus watching on the cable news nets, and thus see debated on the floor of Congress, had a bi-partisan U.S. Senate panel found that President Bill Clinton had approved War Crimes that hastened the deaths of thousands of U.S. troops, just before Vice-President Al Gore went on ABC News to admit it, and even crow about it. You suppose that coverage might help inspire a “citizen” uprising in that case? You bet. But it is, for the moment, a wingnut world. We just live in it.
Ponder’s spot-on conclusion from his Tuesday article is well-worth quoting again if you didn’t catch it the first time…
Allowing Bush, Cheney, and company to escape justice now risks repercussions in the future. It radically increases the likelihood that U.S. citizens will be tortured when they are captured. It also sends the signal to future corrupt politicians like Bush and Cheney that they can get away with crimes such as these.
Equally as troubling is the media’s collective disinterest in these developments, and the eery similarity with their collective silence and lack of curiosity about Bush’s bogus rationale for invading Iraq — a dereliction of duty that has cost the United States a steep price in both blood and treasure.
Does the citizenry simply not care about War Crimes? Of course they do. But not unless they know about them, and not unless the argument that they occurred, and the evidence of it, is presented in the detail that such an issue merits. While a handful of — or even just one or two — outraged citizens who take action actually can make enormous differences on the local level, accountability for international War Crimes requires untiring, responsible, focused media to inspire the mobilization of a nation.
Such as it is, these crimes were committed by Republicans, and didn’t overtly involve sex, so they don’t actually matter.
Arguably, as Turley noted, none of it even happened at all. “I think that’s really the argument of this administration: ‘It can’t be a crime because no one’s prosecuted us for it.'”
It’s good to be King.
The text transcript from Keith Olbermann’s 11/16/08 MSNBC interview with Jonathon Turley follows below…
[VIDEO CLIP]…
JONATHON KARL: Did you authorize the tactics that were used against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?
DICK CHENEY: I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the agency in effect came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn’t do. And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it.
OLBERMANN: Of course, Cheney insists what was done to Khalid Sheik Mohammed was not torture, and of course that’s not actually the order in which events transpired, as the Senate’s new bipartisan report [PDF] on the abuse of detainees in U.S. custody in Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib and elsewhere makes clear. First, the President and Vice President signed off on the torture of detainees, then the CIA came looking for legal cover on the torture it had already been ordered to commit.
Let’s turn now to Jonathan Turley, constitutional law professor with George Washington University. Jon thanks for your time tonight.
JONATHON TURLEY: Hi, Keith.
OLBERMANN: So, as overly dramatic as this question will sound, did Dick Cheney just confess to a war crime?
TURLEY: Yeah, it’s an interesting question, isn’t it? It’s like that type of Zen question: if someone commits a crime and everyone’s around to see it and does nothing, is it still a crime? And I think that’s really the argument of this administration, it can’t be a crime because no one’s prosecuted us for it.
But it most certainly is a crime to participate – to create – uh, to in many ways monitor a torture program. And indeed, it’s one of the crimes that defines a nation committed to the rule of law. If you have to create a new nation, one of the first things you do is to disavow this form of illegality.
So you have the Vice President sitting there saying, “yeah, we talked about it, they came to me, I supported it, and I helped put it through.” The only problem is what he is describing is most certainly and unambiguously a war crime.
OLBERMANN: Except if, as you suggest, nobody prosecutes him for that, which – which it jumps ahead to the lasting legacy of what happens if the next administration does not press this. Do we let, you know, the international court at The Hague come in and take over all our responsibilities for policing our own act here, or where does this go domestically if he’s made such a statement?
TURLEY: Frankly, Keith, that’s what worries me the most, is that you can’t talk about change without having some moral component to it. It’s not just about creating jobs or lowering the price of gasoline. What occurred in the last eight years was an assault on who we are. And I think that President-elect Obama is going to have to decide whether he wants power without principle or whether he wants to start with a true change, to say that no matter where the investigation will take us, if there are crimes to be found they will be prosecuted.
Now, right now, many leaders in Congress are trying to create a new commission that is designed to avoid any criminal prosecution, and those leaders happen to be Democratic leaders. But it will ultimately depend on citizens, and whether they will remain silent in the face of a crime that’s been committed in plain view.
OLBERMANN: A little less obvious, perhaps, because there’s no confession up front, but what was in that Senate report, that the person who authorized all the abuse and torture of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib in Iraq was President Bush, could that be a war crime?
TURLEY: Well, it most certainly can. That’s the amazing thing about all of this, is that the fact that this is a war crime is, is, is pretty much accepted by most legal experts – in fact, it’s hard to find one who says that it’s not.
Waterboarding goes back to the Spanish Inquisition; it wasn’t some invention of Dick Cheney’s mind. It was something we prosecuted Japanese officers for when they did it against our soldiers. The English send people to death for it. We prosecuted people, again, even earlier than World War II, in the Philippines. It is a well-established war crime. It’s not the law that’s in question here.
The question is the politics, and most importantly whether the citizens of this country will understand that they can’t simply treat Cheney like some Darth Vader who controls their very thoughts and actions. It is equally immoral to stand silent in the face of a war crime and do nothing, and that is what the citizens are doing. There’s this gigantic yawn as we hear about a war crime on national television being discussed matter-of-factly by the Vice President.
And by the way, Keith, there was a hearing, not that long ago, which was equally shocking, with an administration official sort of casually comparing different types of waterboarding, like the stuff that Pol Pot used as opposed to the Spanish Inquisition. And I stood there in disbelief that in Congress we were having this rather pleasant conversation about American-style waterboarding.
OLBERMANN: But is that, what you’re referring to in there, the ‘collective yawn’, is that the legal principle on which Dick Cheney is resting his case? That waterboarding is not torture, therefore it is not illegal, therefore it would not be a war crime?
TURLEY: Well, in my view there is no plausible legal theory because there is existing legal precedent establishing that this is a war crime. That’s why Attorney General Mukasey refused to answer the question – because he could not answer the question at his confirmation, ‘is waterboarding a crime’, a war crime, because he knew that the case is established that it is, and if he answered that question there would be serious repercussions.
OLBERMANN: All right, a hundred dollars to the senator who asks Eric Holder that question next month. Constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley – as always, great thanks, Jon.
TURLEY: Thanks, Keith.
The American M$M …
The laughing stock of the planet . . .
The American MSM will never regain cred by scrutinizing Mr. Obama it must purge it’s Bowels of of the it’s g.o.p. (Greedy Obstructionist Pervert’s) Pandering Propaganda Pimping !
I don’t remember seeing Bradblog report this, but in October, the War Crimes Commission at the Hague issued six sealed indictments (sealed until he leaves office) against the Bushole himself. Talk was they were about to do the same with Cheney and Rumsfeld. Have I got my facts right? Then Geo Bush better not leave the country.
Frickin’ spam filter is snatching comments again! Sorry, Cyteria.
Brad writes,
I totally agree. I might add that accountability also requires that our so-called elected representatives behave in an untiring, responsible, focused, mobilizing sort of way as well.
Remember what happened when Kucinich read — for hours — his articles of impeachment against our so-called leader?
Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. That’s from the media AND from our so-called elected representatives. It’s shameful and intolerable.
Blaming the citizens is reminiscent of blaming the victim. It is not our (the citizens’) fault. But, Turley is ultimately right. Even though it is not our fault, the solution will be up to us.
Could someone on TV please ask these simple questions?
1) What should happen to someone who tortures an innocent person? i.e., If the person being tortured turns out to be innocent, what should be the punishment for the person(s) doing the torturing, ordering the torture, and legalizing the torture? (as in most US cases in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gitmo)
2) Torture should NEVER be legalized, because in extreme “ticking time-bomb” cases, the jury can always side with the torturer if they see a genuine necessity for it.
.
Please spread the word on the film that will put BUSH BEHIND BARS!!!
http://thetorturer.com
.
One thing that’s nice about having Olbermann and Maddow, sweet Rach hits the same subject a little more in depth in her reasoning way, she brings this subject to the ‘mercan people without being too pushy and turning people off. Link and Link
We have a voice or two now, which is a hell of a lot better than in ’03 when the takeover of Iraq started
Another weird phenomena I have noticed is that the general public doesn’t really want to know the whole truth either, they only want what fits into their tiny world view…and somehow that is exactly what the MSM gives them…due to mental conditioning I’d guess.
Just say the words Guantanamo Bay around the unenlightened sometime and watch their expressions…funny
yes floridiot #8, but who owns the media? a few coorperations with their own agenda…
if the msm won’t tell the truth then it MUST fall to us. the actions of a few can make a difference, but we are taking on the task of informing the entire herd. sounds tuff, but only recently in our national history have we had the internet & cell phones, etc. our powers of communication are going 2 b our greatest asset & resource available in this & every new national injustice.
(on purpose)the masses are often kept in the dark & then cursed for their blindness (by the powers that b).
“for man is a social animal- only in the herd is he happy. it is all one to him whether it is the profoundest nonsense or the greatest villainy- he feels completely at ease with it, so long as it is the view of the herd, or the action of the herd, & he is able to join the herd.” Soren Kierkegaard
I would argue, that the tools necessary for the public to provide oversight of government are already gone.
The corporate media has clealy left a trail of their stance on uncomfortable topics. (As we have all learned here electronic vote tabulation devices, e.g. election fraud) But their spin, propaganda and blacklists do not end there by far. Yet on the other hand, corporate media does not have tools necessary to hold government accountable either.
What’s happened is our representatives no longer represent us.
How many letters have you written, and hours wasted only to the representative’s reply come from an automailer? Why should there be any difference between email, snail mail, fax, calling, or face to face? They fully know we want them to cut the crap, yet they continue on despite us. Some of their replys do not even make sense.
They are living in a bubble world. That may eventually work to our advantage, when the Bond Market implodes from ZIRP. If the government has no more money, it’s no longer a government.
That’s how screwed up I see the situation.
Now we have laws saying if you steal over $5000 it’s a felony. (Somewhere on the Bradblog I talked about how OP Scanners cost slightly more, and therefore if you smash three with a hammer three times you could potentially get life in prison–three strike law–By Design? — Anyway..)
So we have these banks, and people, stealing trillions now. What’s up? Why ain’t they in jail? Why not take the loss, clear the crap, reset?
Why do we have ACTIVE DUTY Troops doing local law enforcement work?
Why has the US Constitution not been defended by our own military?
ANSWER: We no longer can control our own government. They control us. They can wipe the value of the dollar and make us slaves overnight.
Think… If your dollar is worth Zero then what do you call the work you did for the last 50 years? I’ll help you, it’s called “slave labor.”
I live in California, So I will pose an example. We are not getting our budget passed right now. Because we are literally BANKRUPT! So why did we just have propositions on OUR LAST ballot for trillions of dollars for high-speed trains, schools, roads, infrastructure, law enforcement, healthcare, and my worst worry _LEVIE AND DAM REPAIRS_!
These officials are completely wacked living in a bubble world.
So which Senate Majority are the people supposed to contact? What email address? What fax number? What are we supposed to say in legal speak? We are all too busy now trying to survive to know this. And yeah corporate media is controlled by government as well.
Otherwise there would be no censorship of any word, or investigation.
But back in the 1800’s we didn’t have TV. Somehow citizens had control of government. On the other hand citizens walked around with guns back then too.
Think about it.
Incrementally over time, more tax, less in return, less rights, and now fear dictates our laws. We have been completely pussy whiped. And now we are about to get but fucked.
You wonder why the government bought a bunch of body bags and fema has built concentration camps?
Now you know.
Your just one spirit reading this and in the big picture your life and my life don’t mean a damn thing to what they have planned. After your dead it won’t matter. They have a whole generation of fuckups that don’t know what the US Constitution was. Don’t care. While those in the know use it against us SYMBOLICALLY, saying over and over that we have rights, yet when you get down to it, those rights have been removed.
It’s why they can lock up a poll-watcher. It’s why they torture, it’s why they won’t count votes, it’s why they stole all our money.
The sooner we get out of fantasy land and come to grips with the reality, the sooner we can take the pain and make this shit go away.
Sadly, it probably won’t happen in my lifetime.
Who do you trust anymore?
Your computer tech? Your Banker? Your Senator? Your local Cop? FBI? CIA? NSA? Pentagon?
Give me a fucking break.
Another barrior is Senators who are from different states not allowing contact from other state’s citizens. Especially when the Senator from a different state is about to vote on legislation that will affect / effect the other state. That’s fucking bullshit!
The honest to God truth?
Here is where the problem is.
The military swore an oath to protect the president and the US Constitution.
The President (not as dumb as he looks) has figured out that he can break his OWN OATH to the SAME.
This puts the US Military in a catch 22. They can’t stop bush, because they must protect him, they can’t protect the US Constitution cause Bush has fucked it up.
Add in the corrupt Senate. And we have destroyed the Constitutional Republic we were given!
Okay? Do you fucking get it?
No more US Constitution. No more LAWS, except to control citizens.
holy cheezits! if i listened 2 u guys i might as well shoot myself & hope there is an after life!
but i’m here now & so i must act according to what my conscience says is right. i will continue 2 try even in the face of utter failure. if only 2 b an example of what may b…
the people who have been most influencial in my life have taught me that perserverance & a mind toward the good is what matters in the end.
quitters never win.
there has been the creation of a steering committee by many high end educators to seek punishment of bushco due to their war crimes. hopefully this link will clue u in to what these people are doing to see that justice is done- even if they have to take their case to The Hague.
http://yubanet.com/opinions/Sherwood-Ross-Name-Members-To-Committee-To-Seek-Prosecution-of-Bush-For-War-Crimes.php
The ONLY way these treasonous war criminals are going to see justice is if 10s of millions of angry citizens demand it by putting the proverbial boot heel on the necks of the entire mass media and forces them to tell the truth.
Then involve the global community.
The Media & Congress are obviously not going to do a damn thing because they are both complicit in the crimes.
Jacki Penny. You think I quit?!
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt….
Wrong.
I just SEE what exists now.
Do you?
Bugliosi says it will be up to either a State AG to prosecute for their own citizens’ murder, or a Federal AG on behalf of all murdered US soldiers as a result of the illegality of the Iraq conflict and occupation. And it can only be done when Bush leaves office. Which is why I’m so nervous about the next 30 odd days. For years I have contended that this group of thugs, thieves, and miscreants will not go quietly into that dark night – they will, in fact, rage. They ARE raging. If they leave office without the protections it affords, they know they are going down one way or another. There has always been a strong international consciousness about the Bush administration, but how likely is it that there will be any bite to the bark this time?
What’s the betting on a “Peaceful Transition of Power?” 50/50 at best, and I’m thinking 2:1 against is reasonable.
That Kierkegaard quote was brilliant.
Ps: How ya gonna put your boot on the neck of anyone when the cops will back them up? Not you.
Remember they are “Acredited Media” all the rest of you motherfuckers can get screw0red. Too bad my German friends hate me now.. They could cluetrain you in.
As far as Congress. ( I call em Senators ) go. They already said, “FUCK YOU PHIL.”
So what say you now?
I felt like smashing $100K Cameras! But it ain’t those guy’s fault!!! It ain’t!!
You wanna protest in front of the fucking TV station? You might just be onto something…
Not one fucker on this blog has took me up on the offer to run something on my show yet.
So what’s up?
Frank Zappa (Republican) Laughs at you!
I cry about it though. And my health is fucking crap. So what the fuck? Those Bright tooth ass fuckers your friend still or you awaken from your motherfucking daze and see the US Constitution is gone. The only reason they don’t prosecute us for speech (First Amendment) is they don’t have the FUCKING MONEY!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
MY HONEST HOPE is that they loose so much money that they can no longer exist themselves. Problem is SOMEONE does have money / resources / wealth. Are they good or are they evil?
Phil, breathe darling ..we won in the last election. Have a friend with a masters in sociology. Recently , she was going door to door trying to inform her local citizenry about a federal bio terroism lab which was due to locate in there(against the law). She felt because of hercommunit’s lack of interest in their own welfare that a big part was schock fatigue. Naomi Klein’s book comes to mind.
How DARE you, Mr. Turley? How DARE you put the blame on citizens?
“this gigantic yawn”?
Obama actually prevailing despite EVERYTHING THEY DID to try & steal THIS election too…that looked like a “yawn” to you?
Oh, but maybe you subscribe to the fiction that our elections being crooked is one of those lame, ludicrous tin-foil-hat conspiracy theories, who knows?
“It is equally immoral to stand silent in the face of a war crime and do nothing, and that is what the citizens are doing”
Have you talked to Congress, Mr. Turley? To prosecutors? People who are actually in positions of power?
Oh but, no. It’s OUR fault. We’re “SILENT”.
How DARE you stand there smug, well fed, securely housed and handsomely paid and tell US—out here in bankruptcy & foreclosure land, with vaporized pensions, with dead-soldier-loved-ones, watching our country raped, robbed & beaten like a sex-trafficking-victim-whore—that WE do not care.
Honest to Christ if you were here in front of me I would slap your face.
What is the citizenry supposed to do? Millions have complained, blogged, marched, demonstrated, demanded accountability.
Unless he’s suggesting citizens do something very radical, which I don’t think he is, I’m not entirely sure what “the people” can do aside from voice their displeasure and call for them to be prosecuted? What does he do? If all it takes is a few people to stop them why doesn’t he? Isn’t he a citizen? You can’t blame your citizens when you are one. Tell me what to do to prosecute and I’ll do it.
[ed note: We are suffering from a glut of Matts today, both new commenters, so please both of you pick new screen names if you’re going to comment again. Thank you. –99]
Right on, Joan and Matt! Mr. Turdley should look in the mirror to find at least one of the true culprits. We’ve gone to great lengths to try to enlighten our “leaders” – but all in vain, since they’re all sold, signed, sealed, and delivered. The gallows and the Guillotine seem immediately appropriate (I’ll stand by watching, smoking a Gauloise), but I’m sure this gang of miscreants who have stolen civilization has some “enhanced” methods we could more efficiently apply. I dare those sociopaths to try to get American soldiers to train their weapons on their fellow citizens (true, the bad guys have gutted our education system to ensure an endless supply of ignorant cannon fodder, but ignorance is a natural condition, while stupidity is far rarer, and our soldiers are far from stupid). As some great sage recently commented, “Fool me once, and, yeah, duh, I’m fooled forever,” or something of that ilk. I wish I could get into an alumni hockey game with duhbaya. Sure, I’d get 4 minutes for roughing, and five for fighting, and 10-minute and game misconducts, probably, not to mention the high-sticking, cross-checking, slashing, and tripping (prolly what would get me into the scrape in the first place, if you get my drift) for what I’d do to that miserable little cretin, but it would be worth it. He’s pretty good at ducking clodhoppers, but I still have a slapshot. (Disclaimer: this is no threat by any means – it’s simply a friendly challenge to a friendly little pick-up game of back-yard, Down-Maine, ice hockey. Kennybunkport sounds just about fine.) I seem to have gone off on a tangent. I wish I knew a way out of this one, but in the event that things get even worse, I’ll be more than happy to help you all resettle into the ultimately reasonable, truly timeless heart of Europe. (Take that, NSA!)
I’ll add one more note to my comment – I think for me the most interesting legacy of the Bush presidency is the knoweldge that the constituation and laws are more of a gentleman’s agreement than anything else. If it sounds like I’ve given up hope of seeing anyone of signficance prosecuted and punished appropriately I more or less have. The majority of the country holds Bush in low favarobility ratings, most people feel he doesn’t represent Democrats, Republicans or most Ameriacans but in the end it doesn’t seem to matter much. America is vocal, they voted for the guy who wasn’t a Republican. Citizens have the power of the vote and they turned the country and their districts over to the opposing party in hopes of straightening things out. If Mr. Turely feels that voting, blogging, rallys, and expressing themself in everyway they can isn’t enough to voice their dissaproval then the only next step is a revolution and lets face it, that can’t happen. This isn’t a nation of muskets, where the group with more muskets win. This is a nation of slow change and I think the people are on the path in that direction. However if only a handful of people who run for public office for a major party are willing to prosecute the administration for their offenses I’m not sure what else to do? Commenting on citizens apathy is the easy way out. Providing solutions is tough. I’d like to hear someone as obviously bright as Mr. Turley provide solutions and organize. Don’t come to me with problems, come to me with solutions.
[ed note: We are suffering from a glut of Matts today, both new commenters, so please both of you pick new screen names if you’re going to comment again. Thank you. –99]
To the Bastille!
“Liberte, egalite, fraternite!”
“These are revolutionary times. All over the globe men are revolting against old systems of exploitation and oppression, and out of the wounds of a frail world, new systems of justice and equality are being born. The shirtless and barefoot people of the land are rising up as never before. The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light. We in the West must support these revolutions. It is a sad fact that because of comfort, complacency, a morbid fear of communism, and our proneness to adjust to injustice, the Western nations that initiated so much of the revolutionary spirit of the modern world have now become the arch antirevolutionaries…Our only hope today lies in our ability to recapture the revolutionary spirit…”
MLK
The French citizens had it right.
Jacki (#9) wrote,
Think of it as “deprogramming.”
Was Cheney behind 9/11 if no one ever investigates it?
hey Brad, do you ever consider the “comment” #s in mind as to a specific subject? for example, how many comments on election night? or about Sibel Edmonds? can you tell how many people are paying attention by how many comments your blog receives on a particular subject?
how come only 28 comments so far on the greatest political criminals EVER in american his-story? & some of them repeat offenders…
& hey reader, is no one really that interested? or maybe you are all smarter than me- to post on a public forum about my feelings toward prosecuting our current president (according to the nuremberg statute(s). i’m sure you are. but since i’ve already spilled the beans, string ’em up!
of course, i mean that in the most honorable way… feel free to respond.
Does anyone realise or suspect that until and/or unless the chief architects of the abuses of the American Constitution and fundamental Human Rights [and some of their identities have been discussed on this tread, with all of them being a lot dumber than they would have you believe rather than you believing that they are not as dumb as they look (COMMENT #12 … Phil said on 12/19/2008 @ 2:23 am PT…)] are appropriately publicly prosecuted and given their just desserts … [with such a precedent and role model having already being set by themselves in prosecution of their nemesis/arch rival, Saddam Hussein]…. will the dollar and the economy continue to decline and cause suffering even greater US suffering, as flight from the currency and realignment/reassessment of global strategic and political alliance render its power influence null and void/zero? Which incidentally, is a lot easier to do than you may be able to imagine.
Failure to resolve that conundrum, with so transparently removing that problem from the global stage, will cause the incoming Administration even more problems, for it can be fully expected that they will be battling against the old administration set-ups, which will then be “underground” and working entirely for themselves with no oversight. Just because a Power Structure which has had two terms in Office, is turfed out of Office because of Gross Mismanagement and Feather Nesting, does not mean that their shenanigans will stop, whenever they have been able to do whatever they want and it is so lucrative.
The greatest enemy of Uncle Sam lies within and is invariably in the last Administration and its Offices which abused its Powers and has set up covert operations to feed itself Wealth and Influence. And it is also probably the Real Al Qaeda too …… hiding in full sight and inventing phantom enemies.
And if that is improbable, then it is probably so, delivering as IT does, an Almost Perfect Stealth.
Methinks Uncle Sam deserves Better, don’t you?
amanfromMars #30
The greatest enemy of Uncle Sam lies within… And it is also probably the Real Al Qaeda too …… hiding in full sight and inventing phantom enemies.
amanfromMars must b a babe- doesn’t it say out of the mouths of babes…?
Only one president has fulfilled all requirements for being charged as an international war criminal: Bill Clinton and his surrogates in NATO namely Weasely Clark.
“If Bush and Cheney Commit War Crimes and Everyone Knows It, But Does Nothing, Are They Still Crimes?”
Yes, Bring on the indictments, trials, convictions and impeachments.
This needs to be dealt with, if for no other reason than to re-establish constitutional principles and prevent this kind of thing from happening again.
No one seems to have the will to move on it though.